Another victory by George W.

[brakada]

Yeah, right... :WinkNSmi:


Bush Bargains Badly
Kim Jong-il outwits W. on nukes.
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Friday, June 25, 2004, at 2:36 PM PT

This week, after 20 months of doing nothing about North Korea's drive to build nuclear weapons, President Bush finally put a proposal?a set of incentives for disarmament?on the negotiating table. The remarkable thing is, the deal is practically identical to the accord that President Clinton signed with Pyongyang in 1994?an accord that Bush condemned and scuttled from the moment he took over the White House. (For more on this tale, click here and here.)

It's good that Bush has at last realized that diplomacy is the only way to solve the crisis. But he's come a bit late to this epiphany. North Korea has greatly strengthened its hand in the interim. Two years ago, its 8,000 fuel rods were padlocked under international inspection. Now, they've been reprocessed into bomb-grade plutonium.

Had Bush made the offer back when he first had the chance, Kim Jong-il probably would have taken it. Kim may take it still; his closest allies, the Chinese, are urging him to. But if he behaves the way he usually behaves?the way any cunningly rational leader in his position would behave?he will up the ante, ask for more, and walk away with a shrug if Bush declines. And he knows that there's not much Bush can do about it.

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[maxman]

You seem to have something against Bush..... (or his policies) :wink:

[rewing3]

This will be intersting to see how this turns out. If bush screws this up, we are all fucked.

[maxman]

and what are the odds that he does??? :wink:

[cosmo]

It's good that Bush has at last realized that diplomacy is the only way to solve the crisis


What, giving Jong Il petroleum to not build nuclear weapons behind our backs?

You see where that got us.

[phishfood]

thats typical us policy, throw money at it and ingore. also heard they were working on offering compensation via japan and china so it doesnt come directly from the us.

[cosmo]

thats typical us policy, throw money at it and ingore. also heard they were working on offering compensation via japan and china so it doesnt come directly from the us.

Is it just the US that takes part in this?

[brakada]

Is it just the US that takes part in this?

The heart of the problem IMO lies with the US, acutally more with Bush. If he wasn't ranting on and on about his axis of evil and changing of the regimes, things would have been a lot easier to negotiate...

Bush has stunningly mishandled this confrontation. He has allowed North Korea?the most rickety spoke on his "axis of evil," a dangerous regime by any measure?to reach the crest of becoming a nuclear power. He has dismissed numerous opportunities to nip this disaster in the bud. And now he comes up with an old formula that evades the recent shift in the balance.


The problem is that Kim Jong-il no doubt knows that Bush is in a spot. If a deal is to be made, he will try to wring as much as he can?more than he might have managed while the fuel rods were still locked up and the inspectors in place. Nukes are the only chips he's got. He will cash them in at inflated prices?or stack them high with impunity.


The same article as in the beginning...

[cosmo]

The heart of the problem IMO lies with the US, acutally more with Bush. If he wasn't ranting on and on about his axis of evil and changing of the regimes, things would have been a lot easier to negotiate...

How much easier? Especially with North Korea. Clinton pandered to N Korea's wishes all the while they were still building weapons and violating treaties.

Bush has stunningly mishandled this confrontation. He has allowed North Korea-the most rickety spoke on his "axis of evil," a dangerous regime by any measure-to reach the crest of becoming a nuclear power. He has dismissed numerous opportunities to nip this disaster in the bud. And now he comes up with an old formula that evades the recent shift in the balance.

Bush allowed North Korea to reach nuclear status? This article is bunk, and im done with this. This is unbelievable.

Clinton had much more to do with this than Bush. In 2001 we found out that he was already finished with a few weapons.

I wish the author would explain what opportunities we had in the 6 way talks to 'nip this in the bud'.

---------------------
A decade before being proclaimed part of the "axis of evil," North Korea raised alarms in Washington, Seoul, and Tokyo as the pace of its clandestine nuclear weapons program mounted. When confronted by evidence of its deception in 1993, Pyongyang abruptly announced its intention to become the first nation ever to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, defying its earlier commitments to submit its nuclear activities to full international inspections.

U.S. intelligence had revealed evidence of a robust plutonium production program. Unconstrained, North Korea?s nuclear factory would soon be capable of building about thirty Nagasaki-sized nuclear weapons annually. The resulting arsenal would directly threaten the security of the United States and its allies, while tempting cash-starved North Korea to export its deadly wares to America?s most bitter adversaries.

Three former U.S. officials who played key roles in the nuclear crisis trace the intense efforts that led North Korea to freeze?and pledge ultimately to dismantle?its dangerous plutonium production program under international inspection, while the storm clouds of a second Korean War gathered. Drawing on international government documents, memoranda, cables, and notes, the authors chronicle the complex web of diplomacy--from Seoul, Tokyo, and Beijing to Geneva, Moscow, and Vienna and back again?that led to the negotiation of the 1994 Agreed Framework intended to resolve this nuclear standoff. They also explore the challenge of weaving together the military, economic, and diplomatic instruments employed to persuade North Korea to accept significant constraints on its nuclear activities, while deterring rather than provoking a violent North Korean response.

Some ten years after these intense negotiations, the Agreed Framework lies abandoned. North Korea claims to possess some nuclear weapons, while threatening to produce even more. The 1994 confrontation provides important lessons for the United States as it grapples once again with a nuclear crisis on a peninsula that half a century ago claimed more than 50,000 American lives and today bristles with arms along the last frontier of the cold war: the De-Militarized Zone separating North and South Korea.

[Civic_Zen]

Bush has stunningly mishandled this confrontation. He has allowed North Korea-the most rickety spoke on his "axis of evil," a dangerous regime by any measure-to reach the crest of becoming a nuclear power. He has dismissed numerous opportunities to nip this disaster in the bud. And now he comes up with an old formula that evades the recent shift in the balance.

Bush allowed North Korea to reach nuclear status? This article is bunk, and im done with this. This is unbelievable.

Clinton had much more to do with this than Bush. In 2001 we found out that he was already finished with a few weapons.


You are correct sir.

Clinton had much more to do with this. And he is much more at fault for 9/11 happening too. People are blind. But don't give up. :Bingo:

[Balanc3]

Blackmale. All Kim Jong wants is U.S. $$$ just like everyone else. He has been trying to blackmale us because he has 3million starving refuges living on the Chinese border. And after reading up on the train-wreck scandal which foiled transportation of N. Korean missiles to Syria, I don't trust him with our money.

[cosmo]

Blackmale. All Kim Jong wants is U.S. $$$ just like everyone else. He has been trying to blackmale us because he has 3million starving refuges living on the Chinese border. And after reading up on the train-wreck scandal which foiled transportation of N. Korean missiles to Syria, I don't trust him with our money.


I agree.

[brakada]

Blackmale. All Kim Jong wants is U.S. $$$ just like everyone else. He has been trying to blackmale us because he has 3million starving refuges living on the Chinese border. And after reading up on the train-wreck scandal which foiled transportation of N. Korean missiles to Syria, I don't trust him with our money.

And imagine all the $$$ he will make exporting his nuclear technology worldwide. :lol: Probably that is a lot better. :roll:

Clinton never worsened the situation, which Bush definitely did and you can argue all you want.

[cosmo]

Clinton never worsened the situation, which Bush definitely did and you can argue all you want.




Whatever you say brakada.

[brakada]

Whatever you say brakada.

Thank you for believing me. :WinkNSmi:

OK, I will correct myself: "Clinton actually never worsened the North Korean situation. Bush did a lot. Placing North Korea on the Axis of evil (What connection does Northern Korea have with terrorism?) and thus making him an official American enemy, sure didn't convince Kim to start disarming, did it?

[devon]

Whatever you say brakada.

Thank you for believing me. :WinkNSmi:

OK, I will correct myself: "Clinton actually never worsened the North Korean situation. Bush did a lot. Placing North Korea on the Axis of evil (What connection does Northern Korea have with terrorism?) and thus making him an official American enemy, sure didn't convince Kim to start disarming, did it?

Actually Clinton almost pulled the trigger on a military strike against North Korea in reaction to the WMD program.

[cosmo]

Actually Clinton almost pulled the trigger on a military strike against North Korea in reaction to the WMD program.


Yea and he almost did alot of other things as well. That's the basis of a liberal. Say you're going to do something and in the end you do not.

Look at the Sudanese situation at the moment. Bush is doing everything in his power to stabilize the situation, and Colin Powell has been trying to work with the UN for almost 2 months now, yet the UN is just now getting on the ball.

Clinton recognized the Rawanda situation and he along with the UN did nothing.

[devon]

Actually Clinton almost pulled the trigger on a military strike against North Korea in reaction to the WMD program.


Yea and he almost did alot of other things as well. That's the basis of a liberal. Say you're going to do something and in the end you do not.

Look at the Sudanese situation at the moment. Bush is doing everything in his power to stabilize the situation, and Colin Powell has been trying to work with the UN for almost 2 months now, yet the UN is just now getting on the ball.

Clinton recognized the Rawanda situation and he along with the UN did nothing.

same can be said about the threat of al queda with of the bush administraion. john ashcroft almost didn't say don't bring them up again to his counterterrosim task force pre 9/11. but he did.

[cosmo]

same can be said about the threat of al queda with of the bush administraion. john ashcroft almost didn't say don't bring them up again to his counterterrosim task force pre 9/11. but he did.

What amazes me is the selective misinformation that's obviously circulating throughout the internet.

Ashcroft repeatedly told CIA officials that he had all of the information regarding al-qaeda, and the meetings were deemed irrelevant at that time since there was no new information on any attacks.

[evangelion]

The heart of the problem IMO lies with the US, acutally more with Bush.

Really???!!!! Imagine this...coming from you. Unthinkable.

[Balanc3]

And imagine all the $$$ he will make exporting his nuclear technology worldwide. :lol: Probably that is a lot better. :roll:

Clinton never worsened the situation, which Bush definitely did and you can argue all you want.

Actually the standoff with N. Korea didn't just happen with the Bush administration, this is another country Clinton let slip through his fingers, only for the next President to have to deal with.

and fyi... Kim Jong is making $$$billions off the exportation of nuke secrets and long range ballistic missiles. Your right that probably is a lot better. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[devon]

same can be said about the threat of al queda with of the bush administraion. john ashcroft almost didn't say don't bring them up again to his counterterrosim task force pre 9/11. but he did.

What amazes me is the selective misinformation that's obviously circulating throughout the internet.

Couldn't of said it any better myself!

[mylexicon]

And imagine all the $$$ he will make exporting his nuclear technology worldwide. :lol: Probably that is a lot better. :roll:

Clinton never worsened the situation, which Bush definitely did and you can argue all you want.

Actually the standoff with N. Korea didn't just happen with the Bush administration, this is another country Clinton let slip through his fingers, only for the next President to have to deal with.

and fyi... Kim Jong is making $$$billions off the exportation of nuke secrets and long range ballistic missiles. Your right that probably is a lot better. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Ah thank you, somebody posted it. Like said before Clinton almost pulled the
trigger on NK attacks after he and his administration and our country was humiliated
by NK. We signed some giant peace accord and made all these concessions
to get them to stop their nuke program.....then later we found out they
never even stopped their nuke program. So they pocketed relief funds, and
other perks, and kept right on making nuke grade plutonium. NK always
makes us look bad......we need to just level that place B-52 style or nuke them
first. That oughta solve our problems :lol: