picking choons

[johns]

Hey all i need a hand. A few questions if anyone can help i would really appericate it.

1) When listening to a tune how long does it take for u guy's to memorise a track. Also do u mark down certain points on a track on the record sleeve?
2) I reall need help with my phrase matchin. i have read on the net bou 4, 8, 16, 32 but what does that mean??
3) Rhythm of tracks is also a concern. i know a track goes boom, clap boom clap etc but is there another way to listen to the rhythm of a track. i know there has to be more. does the bas line have anything to do with it?? Cause o mix cd's it sounds like they have tracks that make musical sense

Hope all this makes sense and again any advic would be great. Thanks ;)

[tiddles]

2) I reall need help with my phrase matchin. i have read on the net bou 4, 8, 16, 32 but what does that mean??

most songs are in 4/4...so you've got 4 downbeats to each measure. the claps and whatnot go on beats 2 and 4. lots of songs go 4 measure (or 16 beats) before something new gets added to the loop. put on a song and count from the first downbeat. when you get to 16, listen and see if you can hear something new being added. i don't know anything about mixing, but it would make sense to have the two tracks lined up so that the ones are in the same spot - so while one track is breaking down, the other is building up at the same point.

[FM]

as you listen enough and train your ear, you'll get the hang of tracks relatively well, as they are all "written" in the same formats...some people it takes longer then others, but keep going and it'll hopefully all just "click" one day...

Which leads to phrasing...32 beats is one full "phrase" (call it whatever you want that helps you remember it best)..the 4, 8, 16 are all subdividing it down into smaller pieces, as again...whatever helps you know and remember it best. You can count "1-2" 16 times, "1-2-3-4" 8 times, "1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16" 2 times, or to 32 once...it all adds up the same.

Mixing-wise, by matching 32-beat phrases with each other, that'll get you those long, flowing mixes that "make sense"...you can sometimes mix after 16 beats if you want to; it does and doesn't work well, depending on what you're mixing with. I'll even go one step further by saying eventually it's good to mix every 64 beats, as the 32-beat phrase will often repeat itself, before something else either gets added or taken away...but for now, concentrate on the 32...that's really the fundamental part.

I would recommend to just pick out a track, start it up from the first beat and start counting to yourself at 1...when you get to 32, the next beat is 1, and repeat...and again, and again, and again...do it for as much as you can, even during breakdowns (harder to do in the beginning, but eventually you can get a relative feel there)...then go with another track, and another, and another, and keep doing it until you begin to sense what's going on...then try mixing in another track with it.

It's pretty tough to sometimes type out and explain..really all I can say is consistent listening will be your best way to figure it all out.

[johns]

Thanks guy's for the advice. Also when u go record shopping how do u know if a particular track u are bout to buy will fit in well with another track from your collection. I find that i have a bunch of choons that i love and thats why i bought them but then when it comes to mixing them with another track it does not work.

[FM]

sometimes it's the general feel of the track with the way the intro comes in, other times it's just knowing your tracks...I'll just play singles and be able to sometimes think of what tracks might work well with it, other times you'll find it while mixing, that it just sounds great...some of my best combinations came by accident. (of course I don't recommend if you play out a lot and do find a couple of good combinations that you continually harp and keep using it)...

[johns]

sometimes it's the general feel of the track with the way the intro comes in, other times it's just knowing your tracks...I'll just play singles and be able to sometimes think of what tracks might work well with it, other times you'll find it while mixing, that it just sounds great...some of my best combinations came by accident. (of course I don't recommend if you play out a lot and do find a couple of good combinations that you continually harp and keep using it)...

Thanks man do u dj anywhere?? Programming is so damn hard. keep the tips coming please. ;)

[FM]

just on here at the moment, though I've had my gigs from time to time...:lol:

I'm fortunate to have picked up on this pretty quickly when I started 4 years ago after about 8 years of jazz playing/improv :RockOn:

[djveo]

Holy crap never new about 32 beats... cant wait to try it
I was use to the 16 beat thin... but im thinking the 32 will infact get me a longer flow and still use the 16 beat for quick mixes

[Yao]

Thanks man do u dj anywhere?? Programming is so damn hard. keep the tips coming please. ;)

Feel.The.Rhythm.


Play a lot, melody is important but for a flow the rhythm is key mate...make sure they fit, that they add to each other: the best transitions are those in which the new track either pulls the line where the last track stopped, so to say, or where the next records makes for a 'logical' break and introduces the listener to a new direction in the mix.

My humble opinion.

[FM]

Holy crap never new about 32 beats... cant wait to try it
I was use to the 16 beat thin... but im thinking the 32 will infact get me a longer flow and still use the 16 beat for quick mixes

It still somewhat amazes me how many DJ's never got that. Usually though many start off by just going blind into the wind; they know the music from listening to it a bit or a while, and maybe a little on technique, but never really read anything or figured it out early on...I've still seen many though who do get it right, but others don't quite follow it in terms of throwing down on an 8-beat, 16-beat constantly..which like I said can work sometimes, but other times it gets thrown off a bit.

Really setting yourself up right from the early get-go cuts down the time spent on learning and then concentrating more on what really counts; track selections and programming.

[johns]

Feel.The.Rhythm.


Play a lot, melody is important but for a flow the rhythm is key mate...make sure they fit, that they add to each other: the best transitions are those in which the new track either pulls the line where the last track stopped, so to say, or where the next records makes for a 'logical' break and introduces the listener to a new direction in the mix.

My humble opinion.


Yeah man your right :D. But my prob is knowing what rhythm is knowing what rhythm goes with what and is there a way to wriite down the rhythm. What is the best way to knowing rhythm. I know a track goes boom clap boom clap but there has tod be more to that. does the bass line have anything to do with rhythm and is there a way to write the rhythm pattern down.
What i have done a few times is to get 2 tracks from say a mix cd and ry working out why those 2 records were played before and after each other. Hope i make sense and thanks for any advice on rhythm ;)

[Yao]

I think Matt gave a good explanation about the beat count...but when it comes to the rhythm, all i can say is that it is a feeling you need to get. Master the beatcounting first, then start dissecting them into their various kinds of drums. That is when you get to know which piece of the percussion it is that makes it fit into the former track, but you'll have to dissect both rhythms that way in order to do that. Listen analytically, and try to use 2 mixed tracks that make a perfect fit for this if you can: that is what you want to work towards, after all.

[Caley Martin]

first and foremost: beatmatching (without this you cannot hope to make the mixes smooth)

secondly: structure (learn the songs before you attempt to mix them, know where breaks are in the tracks and possible outro sections)

thirdly: timing (know when to drop in the new track so it matches with the structure and rhythm)

lastly: EQing (learn when its appropriate to adjust whichever frequency needs to be adjusted before/during a transition, each track is different, sometimes mids need to be lowered when highs don't, but othertimes highs need to be lowered and mids don't)

[Taylor Norris]

Feel.The.Rhythm.


Play a lot............

This is it. It just takes practice......LOTS n LOTS. The only way to learn your records is to play them. I have been playing for 9 years now and I still dont have every piece of vinyl memorized....but you develop a "feel" for it. You hear the little nuances within the track that cue your ears to the build ups and break downs. And most tracks do have the same basic layout and phrase structure. Also.....with vinyl, LOOK AT THE RECORD!! You can see when the track breaks, when theres a phrase where the kick drops out, etc.... Just practice man....try not to be so focused on the #'s and math.....just Feel.The.Rhythm

[thesightless]

Thanks guy's for the advice. Also when u go record shopping how do u know if a particular track u are bout to buy will fit in well with another track from your collection. I find that i have a bunch of choons that i love and thats why i bought them but then when it comes to mixing them with another track it does not work.

if you like it, buy it. dont question shit like this. if you dont like it, you wont play it correctly or at the right time, so stay away. obviously there are tracks that cannot be mixed in a fluid manner, lostep's tune with the ambient effects for 3 minutes b4 the breakbeat drops comes to mind.

ALWAYS check out the back catalogue of a label if you like a track off it. most labels follow a genre sound, so checking them out is a great tool.

[thesightless]

and like caley said. the ability to beat match is key unless you are an abelton user where you just line up the kick. buy two copies of the same record and play them together, and try to make them seemless. lock both pitches at 0, then play both records, and try to line em up. once you do this, matching different songs will come a lot easier.