Mac / Logic

[Kamal]

Worth investing in it or does it make more sense getting reason and sticking to the PC ?

[WilDFire]

I say definitely. I'm still using logic 6, and some have complained that 7 and tiger still have some bugs, but on the whole, it's very stable and once you get over the logic learning hump, very easy to use.

[hypoluxxa]

Get a new Mac with an intel chip, that way you can have logic, and run both operating systems whenever you like.

[Kamal]

I was at a buddy's place this past weekend and we were fooling around on Logic (forget the version) but damn I was impressed with how "clear" each track sounded and even when it was played together

[thesightless]

or you could stop being a cheapo and just drop 15 grand on the complete pro tools studio.

[Kamal]

Will dual core be enough for production ?

[ShawnD64]

i personally love logic. i also prefer macs in general to PC's. if you have the money do it. if not than dont. you can make tracks with pretty much anything. you dont need logic, you can use cubase.... its all about preference. but like hypoluxxa said the new intel macs can run 2 OSX and XP, so you can take your pick. research to see how stabe everything runs if you do....

[thesightless]

just have poto or his roomie thane tell you what to buy. as far as i can tell, those two pretty much have computer knowledge down pat. shit they have like 9 powerbooks lying around thier place.

[ShawnD64]

Will dual core be enough for production ?

hell yes

[Kamal]

or you could stop being a cheapo and just drop 15 grand on the complete pro tools studio.

I'll do that the year I get my Tax return done from your :lol:

[Kamal]

I saw they were right around $2000 and another $500 for logic.... looks like next years b'day present to myself

[ShawnD64]

look for some educational prices for logic, you can get it MUCH cheaper. if you are not a student, get a friend to buy it for you... you save a few hundred from what i remember...

[Kamal]

thanks for that tip.... hopefully I still have some friends left in school by the time I get to buying it. Though I will admit, the sound reproduction through logic off of Mac was unreal how clear it was... I just cant get over how good it sounds

[ShawnD64]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[thesightless]

I'll do that the year I get my Tax return done from your :lol:

i remember a conversation with you me and joe about you not giving away money or have you ignored my signature since then.

[djjacobtodd]

Logic 7.1 rules!

It comes with so many great plugins and tools straight out of the box that you don't need much else. With that said, check out Reaktor, Absynth, V-Station, Blue, and Stylus RMX.

I run it on a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 and rarely have processor issues.

[Kamal]

Absynth

I remember my buddy mention had that too on his comp. Connected to these

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[miketpoto]

Kamal.... you want the MTV mac audio tour on saturday?

[Kamal]

fuck would you ?? I'd love to see that.....

[miketpoto]

we could do it late afternoon... or friday evening, depending when you arrive

[thesightless]

i wanna visit MTV

[ShawnD64]

I remember my buddy mention had that too on his comp. Connected to these

[/URL][URL="[Only registered and activated users can see links]"][Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


funny very similiar to me... logic pro 6, dual G5 2.0, reaktor 5.0, and tons of free synths and these:
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Kamal]

looks like I'm gonna have to put this thread in my favorites :p

yes Mike, we can do it on Sat (coming in late on fri night)

[miketpoto]

i wanna visit MTV

It's nice to want things

[anonin]

absolutely go for the mac - logic 7 combo :)

[Balanc3]

A 64bit Operating System/Processor and Hyperthreading rather than Dual Core is best for production. However I've seen the Mac's with the Dual Core and Windows XP and they scream.

[Kamal]

I've messed with reason on a fairly powerful PC and it just didn't sound ANYTHING like the Login / Mac combo we fooled with this weekend. Unreal sound

[Balanc3]

Were you using Reason 3.0?

[Kamal]

dont remember the version..... but I presume it was 3.0

[Kinetic]

A thread like this can easily turn into a Mac vs PC rumble, So I´ll try to avoid that...

Ok 1st of all, comparing Reason to Logic is like apples and oranges. You can also get reason for Mac, but the thing is, Logic is a sequencer while Reason is what it´s called a "soft studio", meaning it´s supposed to provide you with all the tools to make a complete track, and while being good at many things, it doesn´t particularly excel at anything. That said, the mastering suite in Reason 3.0 made a whole world of difference to it´s sound. But a more fair comparison would be between Mac/Logic and PC/Cubase or even better (imo) Sonar.

2nd, I´d say if you have the money and are serious about music production, go for a Mac...it´s the standard in most professional studios around the world, so that would give you an edge in knowledge and compatibility. Personally, with some wise choosing and buying, I think it´s possible to build an audio-dedicated PC as good as any Mac, for a lot cheaper, but the truth is that Apple have always had an advantage in the audiovisual area, because they invest in that market, and found a huge niche there. Off-the-shelf, any Mac is better than any brand-name PC, like your Dell´s or HP´s (Mac´s have stuff like Core Audio, which is awesome, while with a PC you HAVE to buy a decent soundcard). Also, you immediately get Garage Band, which at leat gets you started somewhere. Final word : the majority in this business goes with Macs, so most people follow that.

On the other hand, you can costumize or modify a PC more easily and cheaper according to your needs, building-as-you-go, the cooler plug-ins are, very often, only available for PC, and you don´t have to put up with developing/transition nightmares like the switch from OS9 to OSX and now the whole Universal Binary updates for compatibility with IntelMacs...that kinda stuff makes me unconfortable on the Mac side...they keep coming up wth these big shifts, it´s like they want people to keep getting the latest stuff and not stay attached to their old machines for too long.

The best advice, however, is that you reseach enough to find the environament and software you´re more confortable with, select a strict ammount of tools and learn them inside out before starting to make too many expenses...it´s really easy to get lost in this music-making stuff, and soon you can find yourself immersed in toys and not really learning how to use any of them efficiently. And try a bit of everything : I mean, Logic´s great, but just because it´s the standard, does it mean that Digital Performer or even Ableton Live can´t be better, for your own workflow?

Personally, since I only do this as a hobby, I´d never get a Mac, but it all depends on what you´re trying to do.

Sorry for the long post, but this kind of topic interests me, so I guess i kinda went overboard with it... ;)

[khilla]

if ya can afford it i would definatly go for a dual intel mac with lots of ram.

On the other hand you can get a beefed up pentium 4 with insane amount of ram and have logic and maybe even an Audiophile soundcard or studio monitors for the same amount of money that would just get you a mac and logic.

A pro soundcard is def a must have ! so i dunno ...but when you messed around with reason on ur pc did you have decent soundcard ? and what was installed on the mac ?

i went the P4 way and happy i did

[anonin]

dosnt reason have a "mixdown" button? i dont know, but i find that hilarious,

"ok, i just finished the tune, let me click over here on this mixdown button and i can send it out!" :p

[Kamal]

A thread like this can easily turn into a Mac vs PC rumble, So I?ll try to avoid that...

Ok 1st of all, comparing Reason to Logic is like apples and oranges. You can also get reason for Mac, but the thing is, Logic is a sequencer while Reason is what it?s called a "soft studio", meaning it?s supposed to provide you with all the tools to make a complete track, and while being good at many things, it doesn?t particularly excel at anything. That said, the mastering suite in Reason 3.0 made a whole world of difference to it?s sound. But a more fair comparison would be between Mac/Logic and PC/Cubase or even better (imo) Sonar.

2nd, I?d say if you have the money and are serious about music production, go for a Mac...it?s the standard in most professional studios around the world, so that would give you an edge in knowledge and compatibility. Personally, with some wise choosing and buying, I think it?s possible to build an audio-dedicated PC as good as any Mac, for a lot cheaper, but the truth is that Apple have always had an advantage in the audiovisual area, because they invest in that market, and found a huge niche there. Off-the-shelf, any Mac is better than any brand-name PC, like your Dell?s or HP?s (Mac?s have stuff like Core Audio, which is awesome, while with a PC you HAVE to buy a decent soundcard). Also, you immediately get Garage Band, which at leat gets you started somewhere. Final word : the majority in this business goes with Macs, so most people follow that.

On the other hand, you can costumize or modify a PC more easily and cheaper according to your needs, building-as-you-go, the cooler plug-ins are, very often, only available for PC, and you don?t have to put up with developing/transition nightmares like the switch from OS9 to OSX and now the whole Universal Binary updates for compatibility with IntelMacs...that kinda stuff makes me unconfortable on the Mac side...they keep coming up wth these big shifts, it?s like they want people to keep getting the latest stuff and not stay attached to their old machines for too long.

The best advice, however, is that you reseach enough to find the environament and software you?re more confortable with, select a strict ammount of tools and learn them inside out before starting to make too many expenses...it?s really easy to get lost in this music-making stuff, and soon you can find yourself immersed in toys and not really learning how to use any of them efficiently. And try a bit of everything : I mean, Logic?s great, but just because it?s the standard, does it mean that Digital Performer or even Ableton Live can?t be better, for your own workflow?

Personally, since I only do this as a hobby, I?d never get a Mac, but it all depends on what you?re trying to do.

Sorry for the long post, but this kind of topic interests me, so I guess i kinda went overboard with it... ;)


Very educational, I guess right off the bat you realized that I am a novice in the path.

Assuming I was to go with the Mac, what do you recommend I start with to get my feet wet ? (strictly in terms of software)

[khilla]

i'm sorry but garageband ... if you tried reason already then you'll be tired of garageband in 5 mins

nothing but loops... wheres the fun in that :s

[Kinetic]

i'm sorry but garageband ... if you tried reason already then you'll be tired of garageband in 5 mins

nothing but loops... wheres the fun in that :s

Well, it´s included, why not try to see what it can do...and you can do audio tracking and you can use plugin instruments and effects with it, so it´s not really limited to loops. It´s not HipHop Ejay or some shit like that.

Kamal, i hope my post didn´t sound too patronising ;)

Personally, since you´d be getting GarageBand with your Mac, I´d use that to grasp the basics (if you don´t know them already). But alongisde that, you´d need something a bit more serious...in my experience, I think I tred every major and even some minor sequencers and soft studios out there, before finally "clicking" with Ableton Live.

It can be as simple or complex as you want it, i.e., it´s a program you can grow with, you can just start by working with loops, and as you learn your way around MIDI, plug-ins, mixing, audio routing, etc., you can stay with Live and use some more of it´s capabilities.

The thing that throws some people off it is the interface, which is unusual, but once you get used, it´s just simple, logic and, very important, it´s a FUN program to use. Every program I tried, I ended up finding something that pissed me off so much, I´d end up dropping that program...with Live, I just stopped worrying about shitloads of technical stuff, configurations, endless menus that open into more sub-menus...it´s mainly drag and drop stuff, most everything can be easily synced to tempo so you have huge flexibility for the material you can use, it comes with a couple of decent instruments and great built-in effects, and if you buy the Operator synth, you get a very versatile instrument right there. Then, when you feel ready, you can one day jump to Logic.

Besides, with Live, if you find yourself not in a mood to make music, you can just have fun DJ´ing a bit too.

If you wanna spend a couple of hours getting lost in this shit, go here : [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[neoee]

Excellent posts Kinetic!

Kamal, both Ableton and Live are available in demo formats which basically disable the save feature (check their websites). It's worth trying it out on your PC before spending the big money on the Mac setup. Like Kinetic said the mastering suite in Reason 3 really can give you that professional sound. Also since you listened to whatever you did on studio monitors you probably heard the track the way it was meant to be heard.

[WilDFire]

one thing to keep in mind, imho, Kamal is that with logic you have to spend some serious time getting to know it (like any other program) before it comes naturally. I bought the apple pro series book and I think it was a great investment because it really gets you up to speed quick. Once you do get comfortable, which will take, conservatively, about three solid 8 hour days or about a month or two of an hour every other day, then the sky is the limit. Seriously, you can do just about anything you want to a sound in logic. Bottom line - prepare to be frustrated, but it's totally worth it.

Maybe I missed it above, but osxaudio.com has about a billion threads on just about any factor you could possibly want to konw about logic.

[miketpoto]

I Heart Ableton

[Kamal]

Well, it?s included, why not try to see what it can do...and you can do audio tracking and you can use plugin instruments and effects with it, so it?s not really limited to loops. It?s not HipHop Ejay or some shit like that.

Kamal, i hope my post didn?t sound too patronising ;)

Personally, since you?d be getting GarageBand with your Mac, I?d use that to grasp the basics (if you don?t know them already). But alongisde that, you?d need something a bit more serious...in my experience, I think I tred every major and even some minor sequencers and soft studios out there, before finally "clicking" with Ableton Live.

It can be as simple or complex as you want it, i.e., it?s a program you can grow with, you can just start by working with loops, and as you learn your way around MIDI, plug-ins, mixing, audio routing, etc., you can stay with Live and use some more of it?s capabilities.

The thing that throws some people off it is the interface, which is unusual, but once you get used, it?s just simple, logic and, very important, it?s a FUN program to use. Every program I tried, I ended up finding something that pissed me off so much, I?d end up dropping that program...with Live, I just stopped worrying about shitloads of technical stuff, configurations, endless menus that open into more sub-menus...it?s mainly drag and drop stuff, most everything can be easily synced to tempo so you have huge flexibility for the material you can use, it comes with a couple of decent instruments and great built-in effects, and if you buy the Operator synth, you get a very versatile instrument right there. Then, when you feel ready, you can one day jump to Logic.

Besides, with Live, if you find yourself not in a mood to make music, you can just have fun DJ?ing a bit too.

If you wanna spend a couple of hours getting lost in this shit, go here : [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Good post Kinetic, looks like I have my hands full with toys / software when I get the Mac.

As you rightfully mentioned, a lot of the softwares have a seemingly complex interface until you've dipped your head into them for 2 days straight and you start getting the hang of things.

Though this time, I really want to proceed with it. I hope this motivation sticks with me long enough to learn and get comfrotable with at least 1 of the softwares.

BTW do you have any audio samples you've made that we can check out ?

[Kinetic]

What, you mean full tracks? Bah, I have one yeah, it´s just so cheesy I´m almost ashamed of putting it anywhere to mass apreciation...it´s turned out a trance track, though I certainly didn´t want it to turn out that way!!! But I guess if you really want to hear it, we can arrange something, no problem.

I also collaborated with a Spanish friend on a couple of tracks (I even put vocals on one of them), but when I "ran away" from there, I lost it all.

Also, I have a bunch of self-made loops which I don´t mind sharing or even just giving away...maybe someone will be inspired..

I´ve been into this shit for 2 years and I´m the biggest victim of what I´ve talked about that you could find : I wasted so much time just trying out sequencers, synths and effects, that all I ever completed was that track...for the past few months I´ve been into DJ´ing with Live (there´s a set of mine in the Members section), but I certainly intend to get back to producing.

[Jenks]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Kamal]

^^ :lol:

[miketpoto]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


That machine came out in 2000.... get a fucking clue.

[Jenks]

iHere's a iclue iPotato, it's a igeneral istatement about apple, read between the ilines.

[khilla]

Also, I have a bunch of self-made loops which I don?t mind sharing or even just giving away...maybe someone will be inspired..

I?ve been into this shit for 2 years and I?m the biggest victim of what I?ve talked about that you could find : I wasted so much time just trying out sequencers, synths and effects, that all I ever completed was that track...for the past few months I?ve been into DJ?ing with Live (there?s a set of mine in the Members section), but I certainly intend to get back to producing.

hehe, 3 years into it .. and uhm 15 tracks finished (well sorta, they never really are finished) and then uhm .... 150 + unfinished loops

thats what you get when trying different plugins and sequencers each time, or when trying to find the right sample for that track :)

[Kinetic]

hehe, 3 years into it .. and uhm 15 tracks finished (well sorta, they never really are finished) and then uhm .... 150 + unfinished loops

thats what you get when trying different plugins and sequencers each time, or when trying to find the right sample for that track :)

Totally...it took me so long to settle down and finally invest in something...

I remember I had another finished one, which I based around a recorded angry phone call from one of our clients, but I can?t find it anywhere. And right now I have a half-finished in Ableton, which has been like that for months.

This shit requires dedication man, and with 2 kids, a wife and a full time job, it?s just real difficult...but I have fun, which is what I look for in this anyway.

[Kamal]

thought I'd share the track we "sorta" put together

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

did that in about 2.5 hours. No where near complete and I'd defo edit out a few parts but a treo put it together so thats how it sounds now..... had a blast making it

[neoee]

K, what did you guys use to put that together? Thats unbelievable that you got that far in just 2.5 hours.

[groffhibbitz]

I have to chime in here. It does take some dedication!! At least I think that's what it is. I'm in the same boat having tons of 'just started' songs or just loops, with different plugins, different drum kits, different soudns tempos, reverbs compressors ideas every single track is different and not finished. Ahh!!!

Now I bought some new equipment... but hopefully I can find a few things that I like using, and use them effectively and easily. that's my goal. To work better...

[Kamal]

Hey Sunny, thanks for that.... as far as I remember, just Logic :lol:

Though we did fool with the M-Audio keyboard a bit to get a few of the rolling basslines too

[Jenks]

FWIW...

pick one program and get good at it. it doesn't matter if it's logic, cubase, reason, whatever. you don't need a 3 thousand dollar mac to produce bombs tho. i know some big producers that use mid range dell laptops and fruityloops and record labels are eating up their tracks, and record stores are selling out of them. It's a matter of picking a program and getting good at it. Once you can run all over that program like it's your living room, and you're exhausted, then add bells and whistles and start upgrading.

I'd love to have a mac. Certainly can't justify the price tho when i've seen what half the money can do.

[ShawnD64]

i was able to get my mac on a major discount (it was a floor model) and got logic used for very cheap.... so i lucked out :)

here is a song i just did....bear in mind i am learning :oops:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Kinetic]

Ok Kamal here´s the track. With my usual modesty, I called it "Genius at Work"...

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Btw, I know it´s cheesy as hell, no need reminding me. I thought about remastering before posting it here, since I now a bit more and have better plugins, but that would be cheating, so it´s just the same as 2 years ago...

All I remember is that I did it in about one week, I used Ableton Live 4, a synth called Vanguard, and the rest I don´t remember.

The only thing I´m proud about it is that it´s 100% me, no loops and I actually wrote and played the melody that comes in at 3:41.

Everything else...well, let´s say that I would never do a track like this today...it would still be crap, but at least it wouldn´t be cheesy...

[Kamal]

I know now is a good time to enable "attachments" in the production forum. I'm gonna download both those tracks and give you $0.02

[Mark Santangelo]

i've also just moved to mac's just for logic to produce got to say i now love them and dont want to touch a pc ever again windows is just plain shit to the osx.

mac's are not faster they are just smoother.

i didnt even know how to install things on the mac when i got it everything is diff to pc but i got this [Only registered and activated users can see links] which helps alot for a new to logic user

[Kamal]

here is a song i just did....bear in mind i am learning :oops:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Not bad, though I assume this track is still in the works.... the bassline flows well through the song bit it seems to overpower the most of the track i.e. its the dominating element of the song making it.... kinda monotonous....


Ok Kamal here?s the track. With my usual modesty, I called it "Genius at Work"...

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Btw, I know it?s cheesy as hell, no need reminding me.

ok I wont remind you :p it is Anthemish... I'd add some reverb to the synth and tone the "highs" of the synth to muffle the sound. I like your use off effects sudden halts in the track and it resumes just as well. Pretty good

[Kobe]

I wonder where all this will stand once apple abandons it's OS and runs on Windows? Does this mean there will once again be a Windows version of Logic?

[Kinetic]

ok I wont remind you :p it is Anthemish... I'd add some reverb to the synth and tone the "highs" of the synth to muffle the sound. I like your use off effects sudden halts in the track and it resumes just as well. Pretty good

Pretty much spot on! :D the reverb thing...well, I didn?t use any on the whole track! That?s great if you?re doing techno, but light-trance? No way...as for the synth, that?s just crappy EQ?ing.

But to me the worse thing is the kick...it?s doubled...I used 2 different kicks and tried to EQ them so as they would seem like a massive one, but I did a crappy job of it.

Back to topic, here?s my current "kit-list", just to reinforce the point that you should try to limit yourself to a few tools and learn them well...and sometimes limitations stimulate creativity :

Ableton Live 5 + Operator - Sequencer (and main soft-synth)
Acon Acoustica - Audio Editor
Arts Acoustic Reverb - well...reverb
Dubstation - Delay
CamelPhat3 - mlti-FX (mainly compression, distortion, warming and filtering....)
Blockfish - Compressor (free)
Floorfish - Gate (free)
Spitfish - vocal de-esser (free)
Dominion - transient shaper, saturation (free)
Endorphin - multi purpose compression (free)
Liveslice - beat slicer/arranger
Lucifer - fuck shit up/multi-fx/glitch
Colortone Pro - "flavour" plugin
Posihfopit - EQ (free)
MicroTonic - Drum machine/bass synth
Spectralive - exciter/mastering plugin
Vanilla compressor - sidechain compressor (free)
W1 Limiter - well...limiter (free)
WiderBoy pro - Stereo widening plugin.

then I use 2 Behringer MIDI controllers, the BCR2000 and the BCN44...and I?m gonna be checking out a few MIDI keyboards this weekend, actually! ;)

[jeffrey collins]

I would actually stick with an older g5 Imac as they are still pretty freaking awesome. you can get one now for about 8-900$ with 2 gigs of ram, which is enough to run anything. Logic is the most insane music program this side of protools. I'd say start with Ableton Live 5, as it's an awesome program, very easy interface and quite easy to get some awesome stuff out of.

[miketpoto]

Easier than me?

[jeffrey collins]

well now mike. I really don't know bro...i don't think anything could be easier than you man!

[Kamal]

:Anal:

[miketpoto]

Kamal - Anal - Kanal

[Kamal]

how un-original

[miketpoto]

how un-original

[Kamal]

illcutyourface.com

[miketpoto]

:)

[djsleepless]

Pro tools is shite. At least for dance based stuff, unless you have all outboard stuff and you are bouncing it into pro tools then pro tools is certainly not the choice for dance music. I have LE and use a TDM system from time to time and think it is great for band recording but not so good for dance stuff. Even the band recording stuff I am starting to use logic pro 7 more and more, It can do all pro tools does plus More but sometimes you have to do things in a round about way.

[Kinetic]

Pro tools is shite. At least for dance based stuff, unless you have all outboard stuff and you are bouncing it into pro tools then pro tools is certainly not the choice for dance music. I have LE and use a TDM system from time to time and think it is great for band recording but not so good for dance stuff. Even the band recording stuff I am starting to use logic pro 7 more and more, It can do all pro tools does plus More but sometimes you have to do things in a round about way.

Agreed...PT ain´t bad for tracking bands and pure audio mixing/mastering but the fuckin´ industry is all about standards and Digidesign have made sure that they´re still THE standard. The tide is turning though...

[ShawnD64]

Not bad, though I assume this track is still in the works.... the bassline flows well through the song bit it seems to overpower the most of the track i.e. its the dominating element of the song making it.... kinda monotonous....

yes it is in the works, thanks for listening :)
yes the bass is the dominating element, monotony is always my problem :x

[jeffrey collins]

make sure the bass is in mono, or it won't cut into vinyl the correct way.

[supaz]

Kamal...IMO, get a nice dual core pc and save some $ for gear....bc you'll need it. I was at the crossroads between buying a new Mac + Logic Pro 7 vs. PC. I decided to go with PC and Cubase SX3. At the end of the day, they'll do the same tasks, it's just how you prefer the workflow. People can talk all the smack they want about Cubase/Nuendo, but people tend to forget they invented VST and pioneered computer based sequencers back in the Atari days. We're talking over 20 years of R & D. Apple didn't create Logic...they bought eMagic a few years ago. It's a good product, but I'd rather save several thousands and use it toward a nice mixing board, monitors, etc.

[supaz]

another 2 cents...if you decide to go with Logic 7, don't get the academic version bc you won't be entitled to future versions.

[jeffrey collins]

don't forget that logic will be a universal binary by the years end too. as will all mac software. it has to be a universal binary...that is going to make shopping for music software so much better in the future.

[Gloomy]

I'm not staying awake of the cubase <-> logic story. A lot of pro's seem to go for logic, but if you know that a guy like Pole Folder is a dedicated Cubase user, you can't make a wong decision. I have tested cubase sx3 for some months now, and I'm very pleased with it. I heard Logic has more and better plugins ... well if you really need them, then it's an advantage. I have a hardware synth, groovebox and keyboard, well these are my best plugins ;)

Dilemma's like PC <-> Mac can go on for months, I'm speaking for myself now :). I decided a few months ago to build a brandnew dedicated music production computer. I first intended to go on MAC, cause the MAC mini seemed to be a cheap solution. However, after reading info on the steinberg website (where you have a decent hardware review, incl. CPU recommendations for the use of cubase), I came back from the mac mini idea. On the contrary, I got interested in AMD ... from everything I was reading about it, best value/money cpu on the market. The day I wanted to go to my local computer store, I read that AMD processore prices would have a serious price cut, after introducing Intel's core duo. So I decided to wait and indeed, recently, AMD cpu prices have almost been halvered. In the meanwhile, one of the guys of my music store tried to convince me to go for the newest iMAC :what Indeed, MACs look nice, just one big screen (no extra case), run smoothly, stable and silent, no driver issues (but I've hardly had any PC issues either) ... but the price remains high. Actually I could afford a new MAC, but I refuse to give out more money than needed.