Inverting sound in Live 5

[rhanson187]

Trying to pull vocals out of a track. What I have been doing is taking a measure without the vocal, inverting the sound in Soundforge, and then pasting the inverted sound atop the measure containing the vocal. In essence, this just erases whatever is contained in both measures, leaving what has been added into the second.

I would like to be able to remove Soundforge from this process and am wondering if there is an option in Live 5.0 to invert the audio of a particular sample or region.

If this makes sense to anyone, would love some help, thanks.

[groffhibbitz]

ahh, I don't think you can do that in Live, although its a good idea...

Would it be possible to post a sample of a vocal that you have 'extracted' using this method? I'd be very interested to see how it sounds. If it sounds good, maybe we (I) could write some sort of program that automates the process. I've been looking for a cool new programming project for a while, and I have more free time lately.

[neoee]

Trying to pull vocals out of a track. What I have been doing is taking a measure without the vocal, inverting the sound in Soundforge, and then pasting the inverted sound atop the measure containing the vocal. In essence, this just erases whatever is contained in both measures, leaving what has been added into the second.

I would like to be able to remove Soundforge from this process and am wondering if there is an option in Live 5.0 to invert the audio of a particular sample or region.

If this makes sense to anyone, would love some help, thanks.

Thats brilliant, did you think of that yourself? And I would like to hear how that turned out too.

[jeffrey collins]

usually if you play back two soundsources and play them 180begrees out of phase they will cancel each other out, he's doing this to a further extent to remove vocals. I'd say you can do it in Live, you'd have to do it in arrangement view though.

[neoee]

usually if you play back two soundsources and play them 180begrees out of phase they will cancel each other out, he's doing this to a further extent to remove vocals. I'd say you can do it in Live, you'd have to do it in arrangement view though.

Yeah I understand the concept, I just never thought of doing it to extract vocals, nor have I ever heard of anyone mentioning it before. Genius I tell you (assuming it works well)! ;)

[jeffrey collins]

you might have a slight ghosting of the background track when you go to do it. it just depends on so many variables. But I believe that is how a lot of acapellas get made.

[Kinetic]

So has anyone tried this yet? Does it work well?

I don´t see how the inverting part can de done in Live (unless you use the Utility effect, but I´d have to check how to do it), but everything else is pretty straightforward. I just wonder how well it will work (yeah I´m a lazy ass)

[miketpoto]

I'd say you can do it in Live, you'd have to do it in arrangement view though.

LOL, jeffrey, you talk about arrangement view as if it were some horrible useless wasteland or something..... well, perhaps I exaggerate but when using live to produce, arrangemet view is the head pimp daddy that you just gotta go to, cause thats what he's for... anyway, it just struck me as funny how you phrased it is all.

But I believe that is how a lot of acapellas get made.

Huh.... I always thought that accapellas got made in the studio when the vocalist sang into a microphone while listening to the accompaniment in headphones so their vocals can be isolated into an accapella track and then mixed and mastered afterwards with the instrumentals... and for remixing and stuff like that. :) When a vocalist wants their song remixed they generally provide the accapella to the producer... any accapellas made by noise cancellation are bootleg and white label remixes at most I would imagine. Good DJ tools though if done properly.

And you can most certainly use live for this process... check their forums for tutorials and dumb people asking retarded questions too.

[ShawnD64]

reverse phasing:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Kinetic]

Ah, I knew it could be done and had something to do with the Utility effect. Check out this thread : [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[rhanson187]

Sorry I have been out of this discussion. I have tried it with a couple of tracks, some success, some failure. The real bitch of it is trying to get the irst sample to lay ove EXACTLY. Which is the reason I had wondered if it is possible to invert in Live, would make adjustments easier.

Thanks Kinetic for the link. It is possible, just can be a pain.

[groffhibbitz]

you could always do the phase inverting in another program and then import to live

[rhanson187]

you could always do the phase inverting in another program and then import to live

This is what I have ended up doing it. The most success I have had is opening the track in Soundforge and setting markers at the front and back ewnd of the clip sans lyric. You can the use the shift acid loop left command to get the same chunk of time when grabbing the cip with the lyric. Once you have both clips, invert the first and "paste special - mix" the first over the second.

Cheers

[groffhibbitz]

I've been thinking about how this would all work, and realized that the track may not be exactly (Drums + Vocals)->output... it may be more like

(Drums + Vocals) ->compression->output

this could screw things up... but I think it could still work to get a nice cheeky vocal sample from your favorite house tune...

[jeffrey collins]

i love Live, i only use 4 right now. but it is sweet. I do not talk down about it Mike.

And I know most acapellas get made in the studio you buttnut. He's just asking how to get acapellas made by yourself.

[Revinant]

If I understand what u trying to say, yes u can do that, but only in the session mode. select the part u want to reverse, copy on the side of the beginning of the sample & reverse. simple as that

[rhanson187]

If I understand what u trying to say, yes u can do that, but only in the session mode. select the part u want to reverse, copy on the side of the beginning of the sample & reverse. simple as that

Not quit as simple as that. I'm looking to "invert" the sound, not reverse it. If there is a way to invert audio in Live without the help of an external program, I would love to know... looks like I'll just have to stick it out using Soundforge for this procedure though.

BTW - You can reverse audio in both modes of Live, not solely the session view.

[Revinant]

yeah, I know about the reverse thing. didnt quite understand ur question then. :)

[notinclined]

The most success I have had is opening the track in Soundforge and setting markers at the front and back ewnd of the clip sans lyric.

Cool Edit Pro has 'find beats' (which works really well for other samples I've ripped) and 'adjust selection to phrase' (which I've never tried) perhaps this would help with the accuracy!
Cool Edit also has great 'noise reduction' facilities to tidy up the "extracted" sound.

Great Idea BTW. (thank you for stimulating my first post)

cya

[marcus wortley]

If there is a way to invert audio in Live without the help of an external program

NO, unless you use a plugin :arrow:

[mrbyrd]

AWESOME..........great idea~~ thank you for posting this!!