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Old Charlie May interview post Airdrawndagger 2004!
Originally on old progressive site ww.Xpander.nl
Now defunct
Interview: Charlie May
by Christian J. Zani
Charlie May, synonymous to ageless music, has embraced the dance world with complex tunes, exhilarating sounds, and melodies that only angels can decipher. One of the masterminds behind Sasha's 'Airdrawndagger' and a collaborator with artists like William Orbit, Junkie XL, Madonna, Radiohead, John Digweed and Peter Gabriel to mention a few, May continues to render eminent tracks and remixes for DJs and mainstream artists. Recently, May teamed up with longtime pal Duncan Forbes to revitalize the progressive sounds of Spooky. He has also assisted William Orbit in new material, soon to be released this year. Amidst all the relentless work, new tracks and mixes that will soon be feeding our music-hungry souls, May took a moment to catch up with Xpander...
Describe the turning point where you decided that you wanted to be completely committed to a musical career?
I remember very early on discovering that it was much more fun improvising than learning scales and set pieces during piano lessons, which I started at the age of four. I promptly drove all my teachers and parents insane by refusing to cooperate with their academic master plan. Music was always an escape from a very strict world of Victorian values and repression that I grew up in (pop music was banned in our house). So I guess it quickly came to represent freedom of ideas before I had any thought of making it my job. That just happens by default when suddenly one day you need cash and can't face the prospect of getting a real job.
Who has influenced your style of music?
I was exposed to a huge amount of classical music when I was very young, which probably affected the way I pictured music being put together and still does. It wasn't until I heard pop like early Depeche Mode, Yazoo and Roxy music that I became interested in strange sounds in music and the idea that you could make it all by yourself. I guess my biggest influences would have to be Robin Guthrie, Brian Eno, William Orbit, etc.. But now I am into a much wider variety of artists from Arvo Part to The Beatles, Marvin Gaye, early Dead Can Dance, etc.
You have worked with an impressive list of people like Sasha, Darren Emerson, Duncan Forbes, Junkie XL, Madonna, Peter Gabriel and others. Tell us what you experience has been to work with these 'greats'
I've been lucky to have worked with people that I could learn from which I think is the most important aspect of collaboration. Talent is in no way related to record sales. All the people I have worked with have made me think, "Oh my god that's amazing" at some point, which is really a wonderful boost to my own enthusiasm for what I am trying to do. I think at the end of the day it is more a matter of perseverance and faith than anything else that makes any of these people 'great'.
Do you prefer working/assisting other DJs/Artists, or do you enjoy working solo on projects?
I like to do both as I feel one makes me better at the other. Sitting alone at a computer making dance records makes me a paranoid agoraphobic after a while, similarly just doing other people's stuff exclusively is the best excuse for avoiding a challenge and cultivates this repulsive "I could do better than that" attitude in me!
Sasha's 'Xpander' pretty much put you on the map as a heavy-hitting producer. What was your reaction to all the 'Xpander' hype in 1999?
Mainly relief, because after years of trying, I finally had a top 40 hit with an instrumental tune! Also it was a track that had pretty much died on me years earlier so it was ultimately encouraging to see it resurrected so well. It gave me a much-needed boost.
You were also a key player in producing Sasha's Airdrawndagger album. What was it like to spend five years in a studio with Sasha? What was the best part? The worst?
Working on Airdrawndagger had its ups and downs. Any record that takes that long needs a good excuse why and I think in this case it was Sasha's DJ work constantly interrupting our studio work. I don't blame him either; who wouldn't rather be off round the world partying and getting paid a fortune for it? I think the biggest casualty was that we didn't necessarily end up with the best of our ideas on record. A lot of stuff fell by the wayside, which may one day resurface as the next 'Xpander' I don't know or maybe nothing will ever be heard of it. He is a supreme talent but costly to work with in terms of time and resources and patience on my part! The main thing is we are now really good friends and unlike most of the people hanging around with him I am not in the least bit impressed by any so-called superstar DJ status. I think it's all a bit lame personally when compared to his musical integrity in the studio.
In the end, your thoughts on the final results of Airdrawndagger?
As you can imagine I have heard it so many times and lived with the idea of this record for years already, so it is a miracle that I still like it a lot and am very proud of what we all did together on it and the sheer volume of beer we managed to drink in Amsterdam. I must have smoked a whole acre of weed just to myself trying to get the thing done. Ultimately it is not my record and that at least affords me a detached perspective on it now. I think it is a record that does not date and has something to offer everyone who enjoys electronic music, with some real sonic depth and meaning on repeated listens.
How much did 'Technodubfest' with Junkie XL influence your work on Airdrawndagger?
Actually Technodubfest was done after 'add' (Airdrawndagger). Also (and I am sure he won't mind me being honest), I did it all on my lonesome as Tom Holkenborg was too busy with Elvis (quite understandably so). We just stuck his name on the front because JXL is a big name and sells more. It is the first mix CD I have ever done and it was great to just put a whole load of my favourite tunes together and bosh! One mix album! I tell you these fucking DJs have been getting away with murder for years!
Your 'Quartcite Cluster Mix' of Bedrock's 'Emerald' is an amazing track! Tell me a little bit about the process you went through when working on this remix?
I thought Emerald was such a positive, melodic track when I first heard it. I kept trying to track down a copy before it was released so I was really chuffed to be asked to remix it. I just heard it in a much grittier and funkier setting with more constantly evolving sounds. I was really rushed doing it, which may or may not have been a good thing. I seem to remember being fairly stressed anyway. I love tracks that I can really reprocess parts of the original which I could in this case; even though I have used John Digweed's and Nick Muir's sounds in a completely different way. I actually did a dub version just for John to play out that never got released, which I prefer, as by this point I had some perspective on the mix and was able to make some subtle changes to the overall balance and feel of it.
What's your favorite remixing tool? What else could we expect to find in your studio in regards to equipment and editing tools?
It sounds clich?, but I need the whole studio to really work as one instrument in order to really get into the sounds I want to make and hear. I hate computers despite their awesome power; I would much rather tweak a mixing desk or an analogue synth patched up to a whole wall of effects. I have favourites like my JD 800 synth and Eventide effects boxes; I still love the idea of sampling a sound and then playing it back in a weird and interesting way. I think I am still a romantic at heart and in love with the idea of performance over programming. Or maybe just lazy? I like a box that basically has in/out and 'more' written on it - the simpler the better. Today's marketplace has become an arms race for supergeeks and I want to be a musician not a rocket scientist.
Why was there such a long pause in the life of Spooky? What compelled you to revive Spooky with this summer's release of 'Belong'?
Duncan (Forbes) and I have been friends since birth so we probably didn't realise quite how long we hadn't been recording as Spooky until we did 'Belong'! Luckily it was a very natural process of getting interested in recording together again that was inevitable really. We stopped doing Spooky when it became too much like a real job and we lost the reasons for getting into it in the first place. There was also increasing record company bullshit to wade through and we just thought: "Fuck this, let's do our separate projects for a while." This was when I met Sasha and got sidetracked! I think we've got a good working philosophy going now having had some time off, so hopefully there will be further Spooky product to come.
What's the most challenging part about remixing a song or working on an album?
That depends on the project and what frame of mind I am in. If I am really tired then the most challenging part is just getting out of bed and getting started. There can be a million excuses not to work if I want, but I'm only bullshitting myself in that case. Also I find the lack of feedback from record companies and artists/DJs sometimes really depressing; last year in particular I was literally handing finished DATs to a motorcycle courier before shutting the door and getting on with another mix and that would be the last I would hear of the project until I maybe read a review or something. I think that is very rude, plus I need to get out more. To be honest I find life away from the studio so much more distressing and illogical than anything that happens in front of a mixing desk.
With dance music changing so rapidly, how do you manage to lead the pack with innovative sounds, beats, grooves and melodies?
Very nice of you to suggest I might be 'leading the pack' from time to time! I honestly don't think in those terms. I hate the way everything these days has to be quantifiable in terms of something being better than something else. Number one this and that... it's missing the whole point. Music is a gift and a luxury and a source of real wonder and adventure not some sales statistic with more lifestyle bullshit attached to it that you need to buy into in order to be cool. I just thoroughly enjoy messing around in the studio with loads of toys and getting paid for it. I could be working in a bank. (Apologies to all those who work in a bank - no offence intended).
Are there any new or future releases we can expect from you? If so, can you tell us a little more about them?
I feel like I've drifted around a lot and that there hasn't really been much focus, or 'career game plan' to the last ten years. I hate being ambitious because it means you tend to see every deviation from what you planned in terms of failure and what does failure mean in musical terms anyway? So I think all I can say is that I have always played to my strengths, which tend to be the things that give me the most enjoyment. Hopefully I can always keep learning and add new abilities that I only currently dream of. But like most people I am quite lazy and probably only get around to achieving a very small amount of what I actually set out to do!
What other artists would you like to work with or do you see yourself working with in the future?
have some remixes still to come out; one is for Dave Seaman's label Audio Therapy; a track called 'Clear' and also I produced a single for Dirty Vegas called 'Simple Things' of which there is an extended dub mix that I really enjoyed doing. I don't know if either of these will be released. I am still trying to get back both my mixes of Liz Fraser (Cocteau Twins), which never saw the light of day. There are some new Spooky tunes in the making as well as some unreleased material I wrote for the Sasha album. I also have an album of ambient tunes that remains unreleased! But sometimes it is easier to just draw a line under the whole lot and start on new material, which is what I would like to concentrate on this year. I would love to do a remix for William Orbit as he has some great new material in the offing, but apart from that I can't face another remix for some time!
I have always wanted to do a track with Grace Jones. In fact I have one that would suit her that I prepared earlier, but she terrifies me and would probably eat me for lunch. I think Philip Glass is a fascinating possibility but I might be a bit too 'Acid House' for him! If I could produce any band it would be Radiohead but a mere remix would suffice. There are endless people that I think are brilliant but the vibe has to click in the studio for it to really happen.
It seems that there are more TV ads that are using dance music today. Whatyou're your thoughts about this type of 'commercialization' of dance music? Are you a tradionalist in the sense that dance music should maintain its 'underground' roots, or do you think DJs and producers should sell out and commercialize their song or sound if they've got it?
It's a difficult question to answer because on the one hand we all want big Dollars like yesterday, but on the other the last thing anyone needs is their favourite underground revolutionary bleepfest anthem suddenly turning up on an ad that basically tells you what a loser you are and you'll never own a car like this or fuck chicks like this wearing this aftershave or whatever. I think the real danger lies in the power that advertising has over people's careers aside from the record companies own efforts. Suddenly your musical credibility could be in the hands of some of the greatest arseholes the world has ever known and worse still you are expected to be grateful for it. I think it is up to the individual. Ultimately, it depends what stage you are at with money and getting your music exposure versus doing something potentially very uncool. I was lucky in that I got paid to have my tune on a major commercial once but it never got used so I got rejected at the gates of hell, so to speak, but kept the cheque (or rather the record company did).
Finally, what can you say to aspiring producers and DJs?
To anyone who is considering getting into music as a career I would wholeheartedly recommend it despite all the shit you will have to put up with. At the end of the day I love being my own boss and having all the time off I want or best of all using my job as an excuse to avoid anything I don't fancy doing. (Sorry I can't make it I'm in the studio on that day...etc...). You just have to resolve that that is what you are going to do. It is probably 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration and dealing with hassle but unlike the majority you will be being loyal to yourself and that is worth millions as far as I am concerned. Personally, I cannot stand being told what to do so music provides me with the ultimate sense of freedom that I feel very fortunate to be blessed with.
Originally on old progressive site ww.Xpander.nl
Now defunct
Interview: Charlie May
by Christian J. Zani
Charlie May, synonymous to ageless music, has embraced the dance world with complex tunes, exhilarating sounds, and melodies that only angels can decipher. One of the masterminds behind Sasha's 'Airdrawndagger' and a collaborator with artists like William Orbit, Junkie XL, Madonna, Radiohead, John Digweed and Peter Gabriel to mention a few, May continues to render eminent tracks and remixes for DJs and mainstream artists. Recently, May teamed up with longtime pal Duncan Forbes to revitalize the progressive sounds of Spooky. He has also assisted William Orbit in new material, soon to be released this year. Amidst all the relentless work, new tracks and mixes that will soon be feeding our music-hungry souls, May took a moment to catch up with Xpander...
Describe the turning point where you decided that you wanted to be completely committed to a musical career?
I remember very early on discovering that it was much more fun improvising than learning scales and set pieces during piano lessons, which I started at the age of four. I promptly drove all my teachers and parents insane by refusing to cooperate with their academic master plan. Music was always an escape from a very strict world of Victorian values and repression that I grew up in (pop music was banned in our house). So I guess it quickly came to represent freedom of ideas before I had any thought of making it my job. That just happens by default when suddenly one day you need cash and can't face the prospect of getting a real job.
Who has influenced your style of music?
I was exposed to a huge amount of classical music when I was very young, which probably affected the way I pictured music being put together and still does. It wasn't until I heard pop like early Depeche Mode, Yazoo and Roxy music that I became interested in strange sounds in music and the idea that you could make it all by yourself. I guess my biggest influences would have to be Robin Guthrie, Brian Eno, William Orbit, etc.. But now I am into a much wider variety of artists from Arvo Part to The Beatles, Marvin Gaye, early Dead Can Dance, etc.
You have worked with an impressive list of people like Sasha, Darren Emerson, Duncan Forbes, Junkie XL, Madonna, Peter Gabriel and others. Tell us what you experience has been to work with these 'greats'
I've been lucky to have worked with people that I could learn from which I think is the most important aspect of collaboration. Talent is in no way related to record sales. All the people I have worked with have made me think, "Oh my god that's amazing" at some point, which is really a wonderful boost to my own enthusiasm for what I am trying to do. I think at the end of the day it is more a matter of perseverance and faith than anything else that makes any of these people 'great'.
Do you prefer working/assisting other DJs/Artists, or do you enjoy working solo on projects?
I like to do both as I feel one makes me better at the other. Sitting alone at a computer making dance records makes me a paranoid agoraphobic after a while, similarly just doing other people's stuff exclusively is the best excuse for avoiding a challenge and cultivates this repulsive "I could do better than that" attitude in me!
Sasha's 'Xpander' pretty much put you on the map as a heavy-hitting producer. What was your reaction to all the 'Xpander' hype in 1999?
Mainly relief, because after years of trying, I finally had a top 40 hit with an instrumental tune! Also it was a track that had pretty much died on me years earlier so it was ultimately encouraging to see it resurrected so well. It gave me a much-needed boost.
You were also a key player in producing Sasha's Airdrawndagger album. What was it like to spend five years in a studio with Sasha? What was the best part? The worst?
Working on Airdrawndagger had its ups and downs. Any record that takes that long needs a good excuse why and I think in this case it was Sasha's DJ work constantly interrupting our studio work. I don't blame him either; who wouldn't rather be off round the world partying and getting paid a fortune for it? I think the biggest casualty was that we didn't necessarily end up with the best of our ideas on record. A lot of stuff fell by the wayside, which may one day resurface as the next 'Xpander' I don't know or maybe nothing will ever be heard of it. He is a supreme talent but costly to work with in terms of time and resources and patience on my part! The main thing is we are now really good friends and unlike most of the people hanging around with him I am not in the least bit impressed by any so-called superstar DJ status. I think it's all a bit lame personally when compared to his musical integrity in the studio.
In the end, your thoughts on the final results of Airdrawndagger?
As you can imagine I have heard it so many times and lived with the idea of this record for years already, so it is a miracle that I still like it a lot and am very proud of what we all did together on it and the sheer volume of beer we managed to drink in Amsterdam. I must have smoked a whole acre of weed just to myself trying to get the thing done. Ultimately it is not my record and that at least affords me a detached perspective on it now. I think it is a record that does not date and has something to offer everyone who enjoys electronic music, with some real sonic depth and meaning on repeated listens.
How much did 'Technodubfest' with Junkie XL influence your work on Airdrawndagger?
Actually Technodubfest was done after 'add' (Airdrawndagger). Also (and I am sure he won't mind me being honest), I did it all on my lonesome as Tom Holkenborg was too busy with Elvis (quite understandably so). We just stuck his name on the front because JXL is a big name and sells more. It is the first mix CD I have ever done and it was great to just put a whole load of my favourite tunes together and bosh! One mix album! I tell you these fucking DJs have been getting away with murder for years!
Your 'Quartcite Cluster Mix' of Bedrock's 'Emerald' is an amazing track! Tell me a little bit about the process you went through when working on this remix?
I thought Emerald was such a positive, melodic track when I first heard it. I kept trying to track down a copy before it was released so I was really chuffed to be asked to remix it. I just heard it in a much grittier and funkier setting with more constantly evolving sounds. I was really rushed doing it, which may or may not have been a good thing. I seem to remember being fairly stressed anyway. I love tracks that I can really reprocess parts of the original which I could in this case; even though I have used John Digweed's and Nick Muir's sounds in a completely different way. I actually did a dub version just for John to play out that never got released, which I prefer, as by this point I had some perspective on the mix and was able to make some subtle changes to the overall balance and feel of it.
What's your favorite remixing tool? What else could we expect to find in your studio in regards to equipment and editing tools?
It sounds clich?, but I need the whole studio to really work as one instrument in order to really get into the sounds I want to make and hear. I hate computers despite their awesome power; I would much rather tweak a mixing desk or an analogue synth patched up to a whole wall of effects. I have favourites like my JD 800 synth and Eventide effects boxes; I still love the idea of sampling a sound and then playing it back in a weird and interesting way. I think I am still a romantic at heart and in love with the idea of performance over programming. Or maybe just lazy? I like a box that basically has in/out and 'more' written on it - the simpler the better. Today's marketplace has become an arms race for supergeeks and I want to be a musician not a rocket scientist.
Why was there such a long pause in the life of Spooky? What compelled you to revive Spooky with this summer's release of 'Belong'?
Duncan (Forbes) and I have been friends since birth so we probably didn't realise quite how long we hadn't been recording as Spooky until we did 'Belong'! Luckily it was a very natural process of getting interested in recording together again that was inevitable really. We stopped doing Spooky when it became too much like a real job and we lost the reasons for getting into it in the first place. There was also increasing record company bullshit to wade through and we just thought: "Fuck this, let's do our separate projects for a while." This was when I met Sasha and got sidetracked! I think we've got a good working philosophy going now having had some time off, so hopefully there will be further Spooky product to come.
What's the most challenging part about remixing a song or working on an album?
That depends on the project and what frame of mind I am in. If I am really tired then the most challenging part is just getting out of bed and getting started. There can be a million excuses not to work if I want, but I'm only bullshitting myself in that case. Also I find the lack of feedback from record companies and artists/DJs sometimes really depressing; last year in particular I was literally handing finished DATs to a motorcycle courier before shutting the door and getting on with another mix and that would be the last I would hear of the project until I maybe read a review or something. I think that is very rude, plus I need to get out more. To be honest I find life away from the studio so much more distressing and illogical than anything that happens in front of a mixing desk.
With dance music changing so rapidly, how do you manage to lead the pack with innovative sounds, beats, grooves and melodies?
Very nice of you to suggest I might be 'leading the pack' from time to time! I honestly don't think in those terms. I hate the way everything these days has to be quantifiable in terms of something being better than something else. Number one this and that... it's missing the whole point. Music is a gift and a luxury and a source of real wonder and adventure not some sales statistic with more lifestyle bullshit attached to it that you need to buy into in order to be cool. I just thoroughly enjoy messing around in the studio with loads of toys and getting paid for it. I could be working in a bank. (Apologies to all those who work in a bank - no offence intended).
Are there any new or future releases we can expect from you? If so, can you tell us a little more about them?
I feel like I've drifted around a lot and that there hasn't really been much focus, or 'career game plan' to the last ten years. I hate being ambitious because it means you tend to see every deviation from what you planned in terms of failure and what does failure mean in musical terms anyway? So I think all I can say is that I have always played to my strengths, which tend to be the things that give me the most enjoyment. Hopefully I can always keep learning and add new abilities that I only currently dream of. But like most people I am quite lazy and probably only get around to achieving a very small amount of what I actually set out to do!
What other artists would you like to work with or do you see yourself working with in the future?
have some remixes still to come out; one is for Dave Seaman's label Audio Therapy; a track called 'Clear' and also I produced a single for Dirty Vegas called 'Simple Things' of which there is an extended dub mix that I really enjoyed doing. I don't know if either of these will be released. I am still trying to get back both my mixes of Liz Fraser (Cocteau Twins), which never saw the light of day. There are some new Spooky tunes in the making as well as some unreleased material I wrote for the Sasha album. I also have an album of ambient tunes that remains unreleased! But sometimes it is easier to just draw a line under the whole lot and start on new material, which is what I would like to concentrate on this year. I would love to do a remix for William Orbit as he has some great new material in the offing, but apart from that I can't face another remix for some time!
I have always wanted to do a track with Grace Jones. In fact I have one that would suit her that I prepared earlier, but she terrifies me and would probably eat me for lunch. I think Philip Glass is a fascinating possibility but I might be a bit too 'Acid House' for him! If I could produce any band it would be Radiohead but a mere remix would suffice. There are endless people that I think are brilliant but the vibe has to click in the studio for it to really happen.
It seems that there are more TV ads that are using dance music today. Whatyou're your thoughts about this type of 'commercialization' of dance music? Are you a tradionalist in the sense that dance music should maintain its 'underground' roots, or do you think DJs and producers should sell out and commercialize their song or sound if they've got it?
It's a difficult question to answer because on the one hand we all want big Dollars like yesterday, but on the other the last thing anyone needs is their favourite underground revolutionary bleepfest anthem suddenly turning up on an ad that basically tells you what a loser you are and you'll never own a car like this or fuck chicks like this wearing this aftershave or whatever. I think the real danger lies in the power that advertising has over people's careers aside from the record companies own efforts. Suddenly your musical credibility could be in the hands of some of the greatest arseholes the world has ever known and worse still you are expected to be grateful for it. I think it is up to the individual. Ultimately, it depends what stage you are at with money and getting your music exposure versus doing something potentially very uncool. I was lucky in that I got paid to have my tune on a major commercial once but it never got used so I got rejected at the gates of hell, so to speak, but kept the cheque (or rather the record company did).
Finally, what can you say to aspiring producers and DJs?
To anyone who is considering getting into music as a career I would wholeheartedly recommend it despite all the shit you will have to put up with. At the end of the day I love being my own boss and having all the time off I want or best of all using my job as an excuse to avoid anything I don't fancy doing. (Sorry I can't make it I'm in the studio on that day...etc...). You just have to resolve that that is what you are going to do. It is probably 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration and dealing with hassle but unlike the majority you will be being loyal to yourself and that is worth millions as far as I am concerned. Personally, I cannot stand being told what to do so music provides me with the ultimate sense of freedom that I feel very fortunate to be blessed with.
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