Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

[Jenks]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Holy Shiiiiitttttt! I never really cared to know so much about your personal beliefs dude, and aside from this topic such importance you waste our time giving us so much bullshit about YOU! I could really care less.

Hey RobRUINSit...


butt the fuck out of this thread if you don't like what you're reading.

[thesightless]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

dont balme him, i fully admit im an ass when i want to be , and even worse when im in a bad mood from work . people are allowed to not like each other. but anyone is allowed to rant when they feel like it. hell, someone around here used to have a ""i hate jews" avatar. you may not like it, but too bad.

[Jenks]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Hey sightless, take your nicey boy liberal niceness and go play in oncoming traffic!

[thesightless]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11



thats the spirit !

[toasty]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

but I suppose thats a fairly easy way to dodge really tough questions, and sweep important topics under the rug.

Have another glass, chief.

There is certainly some irony in someone with his dick planted so firmly in the collective ass of the Bush adminsitration accusing someone else of ignoring tough questions and sweeping important topics under the rug. Least transparent adminstration in history, imo.

[robprunzit]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

You know guys, I realize you all have liberal and Bush hater pasted across your foreheads, but at least carry on a dialogue about a topic you don't agree with in an intelligent manner.

Skahound, then Toasty had something to say on this topic of DOD Lawyers not allowing the FBI to pursue Atta, but then the next 30 comments are totally all about 'self'. Thats a total copout, and obvious sign that the bias some of you carry keeps you from having any responsible thought process other than 'self'.

This is an important topic, whether Clinton had a hand in it or not, and yes how much did Bush know prior. If the DOD had evidence on this guy and knew that an active Bin Laden Terrorist cell was at work and hidden, then of course Clinton (and Bush later on) had to have been informed.

Why would lawyers not pass the info? Also, apparently there was a very undercover anti terrorist group working on this info and that is how that info came to be known. That group was disbanded later, and restarted under new management and a similiar but different name.

I'm sorry you guys can't find anyway to find this interesting.

[eye-p]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

You know guys, I realize you all have liberal and Bush hater pasted across your foreheads, but at least carry on a dialogue about a topic you don't agree with in an intelligent manner.

Skahound, then Toasty had something to say on this topic of DOD Lawyers not allowing the FBI to pursue Atta, but then the next 30 comments are totally all about 'self'. Thats a total copout, and obvious sign that the bias some of you carry keeps you from having any responsible thought process other than 'self'.

This is an important topic, whether Clinton had a hand in it or not, and yes how much did Bush know prior. If the DOD had evidence on this guy and knew that an active Bin Laden Terrorist cell was at work and hidden, then of course Clinton (and Bush later on) had to have been informed.

Why would lawyers not pass the info? Also, apparently there was a very undercover anti terrorist group working on this info and that is how that info came to be known. That group was disbanded later, and restarted under new management and a similiar but different name.

I'm sorry you guys can't find anyway to find this interesting.

Rob, you are right. This is an important topic.

What is really important, is that you either have a very short memory, or you are choosing not to remember the following:

1. Richard Clarke, the former Terrorism Czar under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush 2, told Condi Rice and her transition team that the single biggest threat facing the nation was Al-Qaeda. This was during the Clinton-Bush transition. After quitting in disgust he wrote a book about the way the Bush administration ignored ALL EVIDENCE that the Clinton team gave them.

2. Paul O'Neil told Bush the same thing in early 2001. In fact, he became so frustrated that he too quit.

3. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. Not 35 days into his term, like the first WTC attack on Clintons watch, but fully 9 months in. In fact, Bush officials didnt meet with Clarke until 9/10/01, where they told him they were not interested in anything that came from the Clinton administration.

The funny thing about you Rob, is that every time there is a new LIE about how Clinton's penis is responsible for all our problems, you are the first one to forget all evidence to the contrary.

[superdave]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Back on topic - If the lawyers really did withhold data from the FBI to investigate Atta about the 9/11 plot then it needs to be reviewed and procedures put in place to correct this, so it doesn't happen again. It won't bring the people, WTC, or tragedy back; but let's try to prevent another 9/11.

[neoee]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Rob thanks for some real input. I'm not going to say there weren't things that Clinton could have done to change the outcome but there were many, many more things that Bush's administration could have changed. Even the public muslim community was aware of the attacks before they happened, why wasn't our intellegence community aware. Or were they? Then the question becomes why wasn't anything done. The below is just a start, there's far more where this came from:

Late July 2001: Argentina Relays Warning to the US
Argentina's Jewish community receives warnings of a major attack against the United States, Argentina, or France from ?a foreign intelligence source.? The warning is then relayed to the Argentine security authorities. It is agreed to keep the warning secret in order to avoid panic while reinforcing security at Jewish sites in the country. Says a Jewish leader, ?It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence source. And I understand the Americans were told about it.? Argentina has a large Jewish community that has been bombed in the past, and has been an area of al-Qaeda activity. [Forward, 5/31/02]
People and organizations involved: al-Qaeda

Late July 2001: Egypt Warns CIA of 20 al-Qaeda Operatives in US; Four Training to Fly; CIA Is Not Interested
CBS later reports, in a long story on another topic: ?Just days after [Mohamed] Atta return[s] to the US from Spain, Egyptian intelligence in Cairo says it received a report from one of its operatives in Afghanistan that 20 al-Qaeda members had slipped into the US and four of them had received flight training on Cessnas. To the Egyptians, pilots of small planes didn't sound terribly alarming, but they [pass] on the message to the CIA anyway, fully expecting Washington to request information. The request never [comes].? [CBS News, 10/9/02] This appears to be just one of several accurate Egyptian warnings from their informants inside al-Qaeda.
People and organizations involved: Central Intelligence Agency, al-Qaeda

August 2001: Russia Warns US of Suicide Pilots
Russian President Vladimir Putin warns the US that suicide pilots are training for attacks on US targets. [Fox News, 5/17/02] The head of Russian intelligence also later states, ?We had clearly warned them? on several occasions, but they ?did not pay the necessary attention.? [Agence France-Presse, 9/16/01] A Russian newspaper on September 12, 2001, claims, ?Russian Intelligence agents know the organizers and executors of these terrorist attacks. More than that, Moscow warned Washington about preparation to these actions a couple of weeks before they happened.? Interestingly, the article claims that at least two of the militants were Muslim radicals from Uzbekistan. [Izvestia, 9/12/01]
People and organizations involved: Vladimir Putin

Early August 2001: Government Informant Warns Congressmen of Plan to Attack the WTC
Randy Glass, a former con artist turned government informant, later claims that he contacts the staff of Senator Bob Graham [D] and Representative Robert Wexler [D] at this time and warns them of a plan to attack the WTC, but his warnings are ignored. [Palm Beach Post, 10/17/02] Glass also tells the media at this time that his recently concluded informant work has ?far greater ramifications than have so far been revealed,? and, ?potentially, thousands of lives [are] at risk.? [South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 8/7/01] Glass was a key informant in a sting operation involving ISI agents who were illegally trying to purchase sophisticated US military weaponry in return for cash and heroin. He later claims that in July 1999, one ISI agent named Rajaa Gulum Abbas pointed to the WTC and said, ?Those towers are coming down.? [Palm Beach Post, 10/17/02] Most details apparently remain sealed. For instance Glass claims that his sealed sentencing document dated June 15, 2001, lists threats against the WTC and Americans. [WPBF Channel 25, 8/5/02] Florida State Senator Ron Klein, who had dealings with Glass before 9/11, later says he is surprised it took so many months for the US to listen to Glass: ?Shame on us.? [Palm Beach Post, 10/17/02] Klein recalls getting a warning from Glass, though he cannot recall if it mentions the WTC specifically. He says he was told US intelligence agencies would look into it. [WPTV, 10/7/02] Senator Graham later acknowledges that his office had contact with Glass before 9/11, and was told about a WTC attack: ?I was concerned about that and a dozen other pieces of information which emanated from the summer of 2001.? However, Graham will say that he personally was unaware of Glass's information until after 9/11. [Palm Beach Post, 10/17/02] In October 2002, Glass will testify under oath before a private session of the 9/11 Congressional Inquiry, stating, ?I told [the inquiry] I have specific evidence, and I can document it.? [Palm Beach Post, 10/17/02]
People and organizations involved: Robert Wexler, Rajaa Gulum Abbas, Ron Klein, Randy Glass, World Trade Center, Bob Graham

Early August 2001: Britain Warns US Again; Specifies Multiple Airplane Hijackings
Britain gives the US another warning about an al-Qaeda attack. The previous British warning on July 16, 2001 (see July 16, 2001), was vague as to method, but this warning specifies multiple airplane hijackings. This warning is said to reach President Bush. [Sunday Herald, 5/19/02]
People and organizations involved: al-Qaeda, George W. Bush

Early September 2001: Pakistani Student Says WTC Towers ?Won't Be Here Next Week?
At New Utrecht High School, in Brooklyn, New York City, about one week before 9/11, a Pakistani student in a bilingual class points at the WTC during a heated political argument and declares, ?Look at those two buildings. They won't be here next week.? The teacher notifies New York police after 9/11, who in turn notify the FBI. The status of the FBI investigation into this incident is unknown as of early October 2001. [New York Daily News, 10/12/01]
People and organizations involved: Federal Bureau of Investigation, World Trade Center

Early September 2001: Seattle Security Guard Tells Friend of Impending Attack
A few days before 9/11, a Seattle security guard of Middle Eastern descent tells an East Coast friend on the phone that terrorists will soon attack the US. After 9/11, the friend tells the FBI, and passes a lie detector test. The security guard refuses to cooperate with the FBI or take a lie detector test. He is not arrested?apparently the FBI determines that while he may have had 9/11 foreknowledge, he was not involved in the plot. [Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 10/12/01]
People and organizations involved: Federal Bureau of Investigation

Early September 2001: Rumors in New York City's Arab-American Community About Attacks
A veteran detective involved with post-9/11 investigations later claims that rumors in New York City's Arab-American community about the 9/11 attacks are common in the days beforehand. The story ?had been out on the street? and the number of leads turning up later is so ?overwhelming? that it is difficult to tell who knows about the attacks from secondhand sources and who knows about it from someone who may have been a participant. After 9/11, tracking leads regarding Middle Eastern employees who did not show up for work on 9/11 are ?a serious and major priority.? [Journal News, 10/11/01]

September 6-10, 2001: Suspicious Trading of Put Option Contracts on American and United Airlines Occur

A. B."Buzzy" Krongard.
Suspicious trading occurs on the stock of American and United, the two airlines hijacked in the 9/11 attacks. ?Between 6 and 7 September, the Chicago Board Options Exchange [sees] purchases of 4,744 put option contracts [a speculation that the stock will go down] in UAL versus 396 call options?where a speculator bets on a price rising. Holders of the put options would [net] a profit of $5 million once the carrier's share price [dive] after September 11. On September 10, 4,516 put options in American Airlines, the other airline involved in the hijackings, [are] purchased in Chicago. This compares with a mere 748 call options in American purchased that day. Investigators cannot help but notice that no other airlines [see] such trading in their put options.? One analyst later says, ?I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in ten years of following the markets, particularly the options markets.? [Associated Press, 9/18/01; San Francisco Chronicle, 9/19/01] ?To the embarrassment of investigators, it has also [learned] that the firm used to buy many of the ?put? options ... on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by ?Buzzy? Krongard, now executive director of the CIA.? Krongard was chairman of Alex Brown Inc., which was bought by Deutsche Bank. ?His last post before resigning to take his senior role in the CIA was to head Bankers Trust?Alex Brown's private client business, dealing with the accounts and investments of wealthy customers around the world.? [Independent, 10/14/01]
People and organizations involved: Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System, Chicago Board Options Exchange, United Airlines, American Airlines, Deutsche Bank

September 10, 2001: Alarm Bells Sound over Unusual Trading in US Stock Options Market
According to CBS News, in the afternoon before the attack, ?alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the US stock options market.? It has been documented that the CIA, the Mossad, and many other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time using highly advanced programs such as Promis. Both the FBI and the Justice Department have confirmed the use of such programs for US intelligence gathering through at least this summer. This would confirm that the CIA should have had additional advance warning of imminent attacks against American and United Airlines planes. [CBS News, 9/19/01] There are even allegations that bin Laden was able to get a copy of Promis. [Fox News, 10/16/01]
People and organizations involved: Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice, Central Intelligence Agency, Israel Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks, Promis

[skahound]

[robprunzit]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Wwwwhhhhhhhoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Now that is some good dialogue. And I appreciate it. Eye-P, Superdave, and Neoee, I'm glad you guys could make some comments which took some thought, and on Neoee - some serious digging. Thanks, I'm thinking now, where before all I could hear was garbage.

So, you have made me look in a little deeper, and desire to examine the cases more. It will be interesting for sure, and it is important.

Some real shit has gone down, and I'm not putting it past Bush -W to have allowed it to have a reason to take out Saddam. I don't think it would have been for his dad, as many like to say. I think he is more intelligent than that, and his dad did exactly what he said he would do. But more I truly believe Bush-W may have allowed this tragedy for the sake of giving reason to not only go after Bin Laden and Saddam, but more to gain military ground in the middle east. That from a stragetic point, and give freedom to the region as a mute point initially and stronger point later, all which is true. People will be freed from tyranny, but at a cost, which the middle easterners understand and are not afraid of like we are in the West.

I also believe there is much we simply cannot be told.

What if by allowing this attack, and taking the war to the middle east, Bush really did save the US from having all out warfare on American soil. We have to give some credit that not one attack has happened since, yet it seems sure they will hit again.

[neoee]

Rob- I know not many people would agree with me but I truly believe that 9/11 was either allowed to happen or done by our own govt. Although I don't think Bush was behind it, to me he is just the puppet. Look at the PNAC members. They tried to urge Clinton to go to war with Iraq in an open letter which is still on their website. If you look at the list of members its scary to see where they are now. Cheney is the head of PNAC. On their own website you find mention of the need for a "catalyzing even, like another Pearl Harbor".

Its really worth checking out the 9/11 timeline at http://www.cooperativeresearch.org . The picture painted with news events isn't a pretty one. Especially with all the practice excercises that took place prior to 9/11. Thing like the sale of the towers shortly before, the removal of security and bomb sniffing dogs just 5 days before the attacks. Norad's northern vigilance which left our skys unprotected, FEMA being set up for an excercise in NY on Sept. 10, the mock Pentagon excercises which simulated a plane hitting it coupled with the fact that the wing of the Pentagon that was hit was under construction and mostly empty. Even a town neighboring the one that the plane went down in the field, had a simulation, predicting, for lack of a better word, the events that took place on 9/11. You don't have to believe me. As a matter of fact I urge you to draw your own conclusions. But the picture is easily drawn if you just look at the timeline.

Now all you guys probably think I'm a nut.

[eye-p]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

Neoee- You are not nuts. You are exactly correct.

9/11 was 1 of 2 things:

1. LIHOP= let it happen on purpose

2. MIHOP= made it happen on purpose

If people believe that 19 hi-jackers(6 whom are still alive) outwitted the entire US armed forces and intelligence community, then they are delusional.

PNAC is hiding in plain sight.

https://www.newamericancentury.org

The real conspiracy theory is the "official" story.

However, people in the US are too concerned with Natolee Halloway, or Scott Peterson, or whatever, to notice that we have been lulled into a trance.

More information can be found @:

https://www.fromthewilderness.com

https://www.endofsuburbia.com

[Yao]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

That last website paints a pretty dark and one-sided picture my friend (but damn wish I had enough money to subscribe to FTW).

Oil maybe part of the motives, but I certainly do not believe that it was the sole reason for going into Iraq. Iraq really was a liability for the Middle East, and even if there have not been real WMD findings, even the UN acknowledged that Saddam was most likely waiting for the sanctions to be lifted so he could restart his program (Saddam had a real fascination for those weapons, it has been documented before). In the meantime, he used emotional blackmail to have the resolutions amended in such a way that he could use them against his own people (simply by making his government the distributor of all the money and goods flows).
But he started to make big mistakes by constantly frustrating all efforts from the UN to ameliorate things for the Iraqi people, or for example the weapons inspections. The sanctions we a weapon in his hand, so there were 2 options in the end for the UN: leave him alone and run the risk of him going berserk or finally get rid of the guy forever.

Stupid Europe was for using the tissue as usual, and the US was for the permanent solution. That a little more control of oil resources came with that, was a nice bonus to say the least, but it may not have been the prime motive for going in. I think the interests were combined.

Furthermore, with all this speculation and drawing conclusions: I've come to one myself today:

It doesn't matter whatever conclusion I come up with, because it is my experience that every time when I draw one from the information that I have at my disposal, I meet and talk to someone in the higher echelons of politics, or I read from them, and they tell me things that without exception turn all my information, thoughts and conclusions upside down, simply because they have key information (or at least a little part of it) that I have not.
Everytime when I think I know something, I hear something which makes me realize that in fact I really don't know anything when it comes to global politics. But I try to grasp the little bits and pieces I can get my hands on though.

[superdave]

Re: Clinton Administration ultimately responsible for 9/11

I do question and begin to believe Bush is a puppet of the Saudis and the big oil companies here in the U.S. The U.S. oil companies have produced record financial results the last couple of years and the Saudis keep increasing production in turn increasing their wealth.

I also think that 9/11 was a golden opportunity to take care of Saddam and Iraq once and for all. You wonder if the war room was similar to the film "Wag the Dog" when people in the Bush camp invented reasons to invade Iraq. It's interesting that Iraq became a target of the U.S. considering the hijackers were mostly Saudis.

The Saudis and the oil companies knew that the price of oil would sky rocket and they would only benefit. Plus, Halliburton could make big profits rebuilding the country. Now, Bush is on his 5-week vacation on his ranch here in Texas with gas prices higher than ever and chaos in Iraq. His lengthy vacation alone tells me that he thinks things may be going according to plan. His plan of course, to keep oil prices high, distract the public with the War on Terror while real villians rob us at the pump, and a presence in the Middle East to protect oil interests especially in Saudi Arabia.

So, who's the bad guys? Bin Laden, Saudis, or Bush. Maybe all of them.