The rich keep getting richer

[rubyraks]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

maybe, just maybe....hmmm........how's the pay?

[thesightless]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

ben im telling you, you are in the wrong feild man. i know enough about law to tell you would rock in market regualtion.

[rubyraks]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

I'm not disagreeing with the multimillion dollar salaries, it's just the ridiculous ones that have no relation to the company's size or profitability.

[thesightless]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

its all different viewpoints. i have sat with the board of lehman and trust me, these guys earn every penny they make. the sheer amount of stress on a CEO to maintain performance of billion dolalr companies, while keeping the shareholders in the loop and being accountable to shareholders, local governments anc ommunities, the SEC, and thier own employees while keeping the bottom line profitable while expanding into new ventures... trust me, a multi million dollar salary is right where it should be.

[rubyraks]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

I'll grant you that a CEO needs more than a bachelor's in just about every case, but why is there a disconnect between what the CEO brings to the company and how much he's earned and what the average employee brings to the company and how much he's earned? To find it conscionable that a CEO could make 100s of millions a year while their own employees are paid poverty wages is beyond my undersdanding and imo pure greed. I'm sure a CEO like that could easily give up a few mil without hurting his finances whatsoever and live his life exactly as he would before without a problem.

This is the issue I believe that resonator is trying to take up here...the income disparity between the rich and the poor. It should be a crime, but unfortunately our Congress by defining minimum wage at such ridiculously low poverty levels has essentially justified CEOs in doing this.

And before any of you start the well they negotiated it and they earned it BS defense, let's take a look at who they're actually "negotiating" this with. The board of directors, one of the greatest boy clubs ever invented in the history of business. We've created a corporate system that essentially shields that board, who are supposed to be held responsible to the shareholders, from most lawsuits, unless they've done something that is so explicitly and obviously wrong. From a legal perspective, that board usually has to go well beyond negligence and general incompetance to be held liable.

Now let's look at who composes most BODs. Most board members sit on the boards of many different companies and get paid a handsome amount to sit there. The amount of incestuousness within those boards is simply astounding. So what you end up with is a CEO "negotiating" their salary from a board that is truly made up of their peers (buddies) and when one of those peers is "negotiating" their own salary with some other board, very often you find that same CEO sitting on the other company's board (or at least some of their friends). How convenient...

I've seen this scenario play itself out many many times and the wonderful insulation that the law (especially in Delaware) gives to these boards helps to strengthen these conspicuous ties.

So I ask, why provide these boards and executives such great protections if they have no duty to perform at least at some conscionable level? Shouldn't there be a fair tradeoff between the public and the board/executives for the protections that the laws are giving them? In legal speak, where's the consideration to the public for what they're giving up?

[Lorn]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

he owns and operates his shop.

Thats a key issue in this debate. Take Bill Gates for instance, since he seems to be on everyones list. Gates is an OWNER of his company. He started it and still owns most of it. Shareholders and owners take most of the risk and in most small companies do most of the work. They deserve every penny they earn.

Now I do have a problem with CEO's who are hired by huge public corporations earning what I would call astronomical sums. It is definately taking shareholders and employees to the cleaners.

[thesightless]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

1. i work in this feild, and with some rather successful individuals.. a bachelors degree isnt getting you anywhere nowadays.

2. bill gates made is fortune in stock sales and valuation, moreso than his salary, he owned something that had its value increase millionfold.

3. if you dont earn it , you damn sure dont deserve it. ill use dick cheneys construction firm for example. putting aside politics. why in the work does a guy who never got through highschool and works welding rebar on prodjects deserve more while the guy who got the engineering degree (not cheney) and the guy who sets up the contracts and deserve less... im sorry they dont. everyone has the chance, and if you take it, they enjoy the spoils.

4. look at jenks, im damn positive he isnt giving the low lvl clean up guy a share of his money because he owns and operates his shop.

[Troklo]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

I belive that a person in a higher postion should get paid more but should not get exoirbitant salaries, there should be a better dsitribution of the goods, someone here put the example of bill gates I mean he´s the richest man on earth (I know I know he has a lot of social programs) why does he need another million dollars for?
And at least back in Mexico the middle class is disappearing leaving about 5% of really really really rich people (example Carlos Slim 4th richest person in the world) and all of the rest poor.
I guess it all comes down on how´s the way you think, I just don´t see me living living in my 100 millon dollar house knowing that some of my workers can´t even aford a car, a decent home even send there kids to college.
There should be a limit, for example here in Austria rich people have 50% of there income taken away by taxes. I guess amog other things is why this country has the 4th best living standar in the EU.

[KinKyJ]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

Man, last I remember businesses/CEO's exploit? The view from outside the box. Maybe you can fill me in on how the CEO isn't cheating his/her employees.

Maybe you can fill me in with facts to show me "most CEO's don't have anything more than a bachelor" and that manipulation is the key word in business, more than strategic management, market knowledge, enterprise resource planning and what not.

And btw, if you're that certain that businesses and CEO's exploit, you should move to Cuba or North Korea.

[FM]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

now let's look at the opposing side:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2006/07/exhibit.html

[Localizer]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

No offence, but how much experience do you have in the "business world"? Judging from your post very little I'd say...

Man, last I remember businesses/CEO's exploit? The view from outside the box. Maybe you can fill me in on how the CEO isn't cheating his/her employees.

[KinKyJ]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

the game of kiss-ass requires no education, just experience. Most of the CEO's probably have nothing more than a bachelor's. Knowing how to manipulate situations is vital in the business world.

No offence, but how much experience do you have in the "business world"? Judging from your post very little I'd say...

[Localizer]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

Let's just say the CEO of Sony has to study harder to become CEO, put in more hours and bears more responsability than the chump at the assembly line.

Little example to show how far that responsability goes: one of the companies I do consulting for had an accident in their factory (basicly one of the workers got squished under a 200 ton press during maintance). Even though it was blatant that the worker didn't follow the safety procedures at all AND was under the influence of drugs, the CEO was dragged in front of the court. Belgian law states that the hierachic line bears full responsability of what goes on inside a factory and should take measures to prevent shit like that happening.

So yeah, big difference in pay, but it has a reason and imo it's too simplistic to go bashing CEO's like this.

the game of kiss-ass requires no education, just experience. Most of the CEO's probably have nothing more than a bachelor's. Knowing how to manipulate situations is vital in the business world.

[KinKyJ]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

ONLY 3% OF STUDENTS at the top 146 colleges come from families in the bottom income quartile; only 10% come from the bottom half.

Is that still fair or are essentially those CEOs riding the backs of those unprivileged that don't have the same opportunities and then when they find themselves in the privileged position of CEO, they continue to take that same advantage of those below them by paying themselves more and more and the workers less and less. Kinda like the US Congress, who find it important enough to give themselves many raises over the years, yet leave minmum wages untouched. Do the congressman have any new responsibilities that warrants giving themselves more money, but none to the everyday worker?

I really hate the argument that boils down to once privileged always privileged and screw the rest, ie. it takes money to make money. It really is impossible to grow as a society as a whole if that's the way forward.

wow wow wow, now you're mixing up things imo (study opportunities and giving yourself a raise because you're in a position to do so). You have a valid point on the raises (especially concerning Congress, but that has nothing to do with business) and as of that 3%... Ye well, that's just reality. But a degree isn't a ticket to CEOness per definition. One of the largest electrical engineering companies here is owned by a guy who studied to be an electrician. But since he didn't want to settle for wiring houses for the rest of his life, he worked his ass off for his own, took a few risks and there ya go.

Btw, raising minimum wages only boosts consumption (pro) and creates slackers (contra).

[thesightless]

Re: The rich keep getting richer

ben you need to get into market regulation law. i can see a passion there.