the good things obama and team have done...

[Lorn]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

Actually, I would go so far as to say that Obama has gotten one of the biggest benefits of doubt as president in the entire history of our nation.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

well...

Abe Lincoln only had to lead and reunite a divided nation through a bloody civil war that threatened to fracture the nation forever and lead the way in abolishing slavery. That was do or die. Stakes were HUGE.

FDR was a cripple who had to lead a nation through a dangerous world war AND the worst economic disaster ever to occur in modern times (worse than this one) - and lay the foundations for a lot of the modern features of modern government policy. That was do or die. Stakes were HUGE.

And George Washington - what he had to do as a leader for this nation even before he ever became the first president? Enough said.

Of course today's president has to deal with different things than in the past...but I wouldn't say they had a lot less responsibility in the past or that things were necessarily any easier. In some ways, things were easier than now; in others, they were also a lot more difficult than today. Great peril and great leadership has always existed since the earliest times of civilization, and it has always come in all shapes and sizes.

It amazes me how the history of 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, 200 years ago, etc. are quickly forgotten.

[Miroslav]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

That being said, until you actually get involved, your words and ideas are without much merit (in general not speaking to anyone in particular). I highly recommend getting involved in a campaign locally wherever you live during the next cycle, it helps to have an insiders look into what is required of today's politicians as I am sure you all know.

I know you're not singling me out, but just the same... I really don't think I need to work on a campaign to have a reasoned opinion on this topic - nor do I think it renders your reasoning immune to respectful counter argument. So with that in mind...

Bush had the privilege of what is called having the benefit of the doubt among his peers, Obama has to earn it along with overcoming a great deal of residual cynicism from W's 8 yrs in office.

Actually, I would go so far as to say that Obama has gotten one of the biggest benefits of doubt as resident in the entire history of our nation. And a lot of that has to do that he was coming on the heels of a widely-perceived failed GOP policy - led by a president who had lots of family history in politics, as we've already pointed out. After eight years of this shit, people were begging for ANYTHING different. Bush's own dog could have run against the GOP and received lots of benefit of doubt. Have you seen the way the media has been in love with him since the start? Did you notice how most of Europe and many other nations were THRILLED that Obama won and that we didn't vote another Bush-like dude into office? Do you really think that on most any other presidential election it would have been nearly as likely that a junior senator with virtually no executive experience could have defeated a heavily experienced GOP contender (not to mention also a heavily experienced Democratic contender)? It was all timing, and Obama wouldn't have likely pulled it off if, say, he had run after Reagan or Clinton. It's a huge benefit of the doubt.

I agree; we should maintain high expectations, but if the last presidency was any indicator of what to expect, why set the bar so high during an economic cataclysm?

Because we really need it. We really need great leadership when times are toughest, not when everything is going great.

Times have changed, we're not living in the same world our parents lived in when they were finishing college or highschool and joining the workforce...regardless of a persons education level, we're all basically in survival mode nowadays...it wasn't that way 50 years ago in America.

I'd say we've always gone through periods of "survival mode". Talk to people who lived during the Great Depression or through the 1970s recession or through a period of war. Look farther back in history, and you'll see lots of people going through seriously tough times right from when they got off the Mayflower.

Furthermore, I don't think you can compare the level of responsibility required of today's president with that of the presidents of old...sorry I just don't see it son.

well...

Abe Lincoln only had to lead and reunite a divided nation through a bloody civil war that threatened to fracture the nation forever and lead the way in abolishing slavery. That was do or die. Stakes were HUGE.

FDR was a cripple who had to lead a nation through a dangerous world war AND the worst economic disaster ever to occur in modern times (worse than this one) - and lay the foundations for a lot of the modern features of modern government policy. That was do or die. Stakes were HUGE.

And George Washington - what he had to do as a leader for this nation even before he ever became the first president? Enough said.

Of course today's president has to deal with different things than in the past...but I wouldn't say they had a lot less responsibility in the past or that things were necessarily any easier. In some ways, things were easier than now; in others, they were also a lot more difficult than today. Great peril and great leadership has always existed since the earliest times of civilization, and it has always come in all shapes and sizes.

[floridaorange]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

^^ And just how was Bush Jr. so effective from Day One because of his daddy was president?

I am no expert on Politics or history but imho:

Bush had the privilege of what is called having the benefit of the doubt among his peers, Obama has to earn it along with overcoming a great deal of residual cynicism from W's 8 yrs in office.

I agree; we should maintain high expectations, but if the last presidency was any indicator of what to expect, why set the bar so high during an economic cataclysm?

Times have changed, we're not living in the same world our parents lived in when they were finishing college or highschool and joining the workforce...regardless of a persons education level, we're all basically in survival mode nowadays...it wasn't that way 50 years ago in America.

Furthermore, I don't think you can compare the level of responsibility required of today's president with that of the presidents of old...sorry I just don't see it son.

That being said, until you actually get involved, your words and ideas are without much merit (in general not speaking to anyone in particular). I highly recommend getting involved in a campaign locally wherever you live during the next cycle, it helps to have an insiders look into what is required of today's politicians as I am sure you all know.

[Jenks]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

The guy from Time

stopped reading right there.

[superdave]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

The expectations were/are lofty. I don't recall anytime in my life with so many people walking around with t-shirts of the president. The guy from Time called him a God and he is treated like the messiah. It was quite ridiculous.

The reality is unemployment is rising, economy still sucks, troop increases in Afghanistan, tax increases on the way and he won't touch gay marriage. But, it is still early and we'll see where this goes.

Btw, that whole Bush family thing would have helped Obama is nonsense.

[Miroslav]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

^^ And just how was Bush Jr. so effective from Day One because of his daddy was president? Sorry, I just don't see it... and I can think of US presidents who have gone down in history as great leaders even though they didn't have a family history in politics.

We SHOULD have lofty expectations of Obama; he's only the leader of the entire free world and we're in one of the biggest pickles we've ever been in during the past 100 years. Stakes is high, son.

[floridaorange]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

^his campaign manager and team was smart and took advantage of every new technology possible as well. I'm also suggesting that it's easier for a dynasty family member such as bush to play the role of president beginning day one, due to grooming, etc... you can't really argue the contrast of the two in that regard, but. Besides, the American people have certain expectations from a President like Bush, conspiracy theorists are not able to make stuff up as easily because of Bush's family ties. Obama on the other hand has an uphill battle because nobody knows exactly what to expect, everyone just hopes he'll be different, and do what's right.

I don't think Obama is just like Bush, I think Washington is still Washington.

[Miroslav]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

^^ I dunno.... Obama is plenty well connected. You don't run a successful campaign for President if you're not. I don't think Bush had any real advantage over Obama in this regard. But I do think Obama has a huge advantage over Bush in the fact that...he's not Bush.

[floridaorange]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

^you obviously are not appreciating what makes them different then, and I am not interested in taking the argument further away from the intent of this thread.

Maybe start a new thread on the subject comparing them personally, ideologically, backstories, educations, influences, etc...

[runningman]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

All I am saying is that I don't see the difference between Obama and Bush. Please point them out to me in plain english. Thats all. I don't want to make this a big deal but I am wondering what are the differences?

I give examples - Military and Kissinger, Iraq war and Afghanistan. What are your examples?

[floridaorange]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

I just think it's lame to compare Bush and Obama. Obama represents a new direction, which obviously our country was looking and ready for when Obama was elected, don't know much about Canada's sense of direction, but I'm willing to bet they will follow the leader.

[chloe harris]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

who labeled him as a messiah? you? you really listen to the media hype that much to honestly believe one individual could be a messiah?

are you really that gullible to believe that? ergh.

no one has all the answers.

[runningman]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

is that an excuse I hear? He doesn't come from a dynasty so he can lie and tax you?

[floridaorange]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

Well he was kind of labeled the Messiah in the campaign. Now we are supposed to accept he is not the answer?

Either way he has Kissinger directing his military so nothing has really changed from Bush to Obama.

I think it's a little nuts and naive to expect a man who does not come from the usual connected, dynastyesque American family to leap into the presidency during the worst economy in our parents lifetime and miraculously change everything...then again, I've thought this way about the bulk of the Obama bashing threads here...

And just because you all are not noticing an improvement doesn't mean one isn't occurring.

[runningman]

Re: the good things obama and team have done...

Well he was kind of labeled the Messiah in the campaign. Now we are supposed to accept he is not the answer?

Either way he has Kissinger directing his military so nothing has really changed from Bush to Obama.

Council on Foreign Relations

http://www.cfr.org/publication/18515/remarks_by_national_security_adviser_jones_at_45th_munich_conference_on_security_policy.html