Religion? Faith? Anything?

[Kamal]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

when science and technology start doing things ancient humans thought only God's were capable of, where does that leave faith in the supreme being?

Pentagon-backed 'time cloak' stops the clock

[88Mariner]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

when science and technology start doing things ancient humans thought only God's were capable of, where does that leave faith in the supreme being?

Pentagon-backed 'time cloak' stops the clock

you're just not thinking grandiose enough?

try turning back the clock pentagon!

[Highsteppa]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

However, I don't believe being agnostic is fence sitting. It's a valid stance.

Me personally, I think there are a lot of peeps that claim to be agnostic, but I can't help but wonder how many are actually closet atheists. The reason why I question it is partly because they're pretty much one step removed from being atheists (not really observing any religious holiday or subscribing to religion, much less being indifferent to the concept of a deity that controls or is credited with creating the universe).

Add to this the social stigma that is associated in certain cultures when it is explained that you're an atheist - parts of North America view atheism as being a social pariah and there's an assumption that being an atheist means that you lack a moral compass because you don't have a set of rules that are dictated from a book. I find the latter argument to be moronic - it's like saying that since you haven't tried a particular dish of food that you don't know anything about eating well or dining right.

Again, I found my own claims to be agnostic to be false and not really being honest with myself - I don't doubt that there are genuine agnostics out there, but I think it's not quite as common as many claim themselves to be. But that's for them to decide if they actually are or not, not for me to dictate if they're being honest with themselves or not.

[mnbvcxz]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

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[jay813]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

Me personally, I think there are a lot of peeps that claim to be agnostic, but I can't help but wonder how many are actually closet atheists. The reason why I question it is partly because they're pretty much one step removed from being atheists (not really observing any religious holiday or subscribing to religion, much less being indifferent to the concept of a deity that controls or is credited with creating the universe).

Add to this the social stigma that is associated in certain cultures when it is explained that you're an atheist - parts of North America view atheism as being a social pariah and there's an assumption that being an atheist means that you lack a moral compass because you don't have a set of rules that are dictated from a book. I find the latter argument to be moronic - it's like saying that since you haven't tried a particular dish of food that you don't know anything about eating well or dining right.

Again, I found my own claims to be agnostic to be false and not really being honest with myself - I don't doubt that there are genuine agnostics out there, but I think it's not quite as common as many claim themselves to be. But that's for them to decide if they actually are or not, not for me to dictate if they're being honest with themselves or not.

its refreshing to hear someone like yourself, religious people tend not to listen to logic because faith trumps all reason. for alot of people including myself, that answer just does not fly. most people who speak against atheism are people who do not understand it correctly, dont care to know and make assumptions based on ignorance.

i understand why someone would be religious. i do. i also understand why someone would be an atheist. its logical to me. what i do not understand is the stated agnostics. So you are saying we can never know so we cant be sure either way? this makes NO logical sense. (MY ASSUMPTION) I think these are the people who are just caught between faith based thinking and another part of their brain telling them something is off. and i agree with your assessment that most "religious" people are really agnostics that lean atheist. but have been taught since children to think a certain way and would rather live "comfortably" than to rethink everything theyve ever known to search for the truth.

Most of my family is very religious and i might as well have said i was gay with the reactions i got after "coming out" with my atheism.

[xellsys]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

I could have differed between agnostic atheists and agnostic theists:

Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility) and agnostic theists (who believe a God exists but do not claim to know that).

I am an agnostic atheist. I most definitely am not "caught between a faith based thinking and a part of my brain telling me something is off". Just as the definition says, I dont believe there is any higher power but I wont deny the possibility. Inexistent until proven existent.

Nevertheless I would love to know there is more out there, especially regarding the unevitable death. But I just cannot go so far as to lie to my rational mind by saying "you will end up in paradise after death, dont worry". Thats just plain betrayal of my logic. I cannot choose to believe in something like that, thats like choosing to be gay now cause it fits me better.

[mnbvcxz]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

I could have differed between agnostic atheists and agnostic theists:

I am an agnostic atheist. I most definitely am not "caught between a faith based thinking and a part of my brain telling me something is off". Just as the definition says, I dont believe there is any higher power but I wont deny the possibility. Inexistent until proven existent.

Nevertheless I would love to know there is more out there, especially regarding the unevitable death. But I just cannot go so far as to lie to my rational mind by saying "you will end up in paradise after death, dont worry". Thats just plain betrayal of my logic. I cannot choose to believe in something like that, thats like choosing to be gay now cause it fits me better.

I like those definitions and both are a logical in my mind.

[Kamal]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

you're just not thinking grandiose enough?

try turning back the clock pentagon!

I'm sure we aren't too far from it.

I don't doubt that there are genuine agnostics out there, but I think it's not quite as common as many claim themselves to be. But that's for them to decide if they actually are or not, not for me to dictate if they're being honest with themselves or not.

I like what you have said here and do agree with that, but I see it such that people don't really get the definition of being "agnostic" and will be able to wrap their head's around the concept of God. Making blind people see and wearing a white robe being a gatekeeper to heaven isn't what God is at all. I feel even if "God" was introduced to the world in the form that he/she/it is really is, people just won't understand what it is they're seeing. Kind of trying to imagine the 11th dimension, we're just not constructed with the capacity (at least at this time) to comprehend the intelligence (if there is one) behind the makers of our construct. So if they won't believe it even if they see it, then it's Atheism at a new level.

(MY ASSUMPTION) I think these are the people who are just caught between faith based thinking and another part of their brain telling them something is off. and i agree with your assessment that most "religious" people are really agnostics that lean atheist. but have been taught since children to think a certain way and would rather live "comfortably" than to rethink everything theyve ever known to search for the truth.

Spot on. Add a little 21st century education to 0 AD faith based learning and you have a head that tells the heart you're wrong, yet goes back and caresses it during adversity trying to make sense of it all.

[Highsteppa]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

I like what you have said here and do agree with that, but I see it such that people don't really get the definition of being "agnostic" and will be able to wrap their head's around the concept of God. Making blind people see and wearing a white robe being a gatekeeper to heaven isn't what God is at all. I feel even if "God" was introduced to the world in the form that he/she/it is really is, people just won't understand what it is they're seeing. Kind of trying to imagine the 11th dimension, we're just not constructed with the capacity (at least at this time) to comprehend the intelligence (if there is one) behind the makers of our construct. So if they won't believe it even if they see it, then it's Atheism at a new level.

I see what you're saying and definitely agree - there are some peeps that are the polar opposite of the fanatical religious side, except that they see it as being inconceivable that the idea of creationism and refuse to believe the possibility of a supreme being/higher intelligence/whatever. Speaking for myself, I'm an atheist that is open to the idea of a higher power, but I don't see it as being something I believe in as I would need some kind of unarguable proof that a supreme intelligence exists. What that proof would have to be, I can't say, but I'd like to believe that if I was confronted by it, I'd be willing to rethink my atheist beliefs - but as I said, there would have to be proof that I wouldn't be able to argue, which would be a tall order in itself.

I used to think that would qualify me as agnostic since I considered myself "open" to the idea of being proven wrong, but I feel that in order to be truly agnostic, there would still be the belief somewhere in me that would be maybe searching for that personal truth that there's some kind of higher intelligence. My step father is an Anglican minister and I've studied a few interpretations of the Bible from a few different Christian viewpoints, I've researched other religions outside of Christianity, and have often found myself at odds with some aspect of those religions. Instead I found myself taking the parts that I deemed best of those religions and tried to work them into my own moral code - but, at this point in my life, I find myself rejecting the notion of submitting to the idea of a higher being's morality and simply trying to be the best person I can be to those around me, which is good enough for me.

The idea that one religion is right above all others just seemed like the shittiest possible deal for us mortals if that's what's really going on, and I don't like playing a game where the odds are stacked against me before I even play, which was probably key in my rejection of the notion of a higher power. I respect religion (when it's being used for a morally just reason, and not being perverted to suit an agenda), but I feel trying to be a good person is enough to make me believe that's enough for me to aspire to and try to help me live a happy life.

[mnbvcxz]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

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[floridaorange]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

Some of you are getting caught up in the terminology and labels too much.

No one knows and if you claim to know shut the fuck up!

true

[floridaorange]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

since we're all freely expressing our thoughts and opinions, I'm gonna share the following which pretty closely expresses how I see things:

[Kamal]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

Some of you are getting caught up in the terminology and labels too much.

No one knows and if you claim to know shut the fuck up!

a little pissed?

[mnbvcxz]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

a little pissed?

No, I said it with a smile on my face

[jay813]

Re: Religion? Faith? Anything?

Some of you are getting caught up in the terminology and labels too much.

No one knows and if you claim to know shut the fuck up!

so the only people who should say ANYTHING are people who dont care to know! Gotcha!