The New Atheists

[thesightless]

Re: The New Atheists

there is no reason why anyone outside of those with a disability or an abandoned spouse with dependents should be relying on the gov ernment. im sorry, if you didnt learn a job skill when you should have, its only your fault. im just gonna stop working and collect.

[Miguel]

Re: The New Atheists

^^^ ur saying smart tax payers money goes to help dumb bastards on the streets ?
i blame that on how social services are managed here .. if im paying taxes to help build a better community i would want my money to be used in hospitals and schools... but hey its a democracy right?

[thesightless]

Re: The New Atheists

i hate socialism as a theory, i understand it and why ppl beleive in it. but comon.... if you have to rely on the government to keep you living. maybe its time to let darwinism take hold.

[rubyraks]

Re: The New Atheists

^that's what you get when you live in a police and welfare state like we do, pay it out your ass one way or the other.

[thesightless]

Re: The New Atheists

the cheap bastard in me cringes every time someone collects a welfare or unemployment check. im sorry, but even wal mart hires retards... anyone can get a job. its my goddamn money, im keeping it. im just gonna stop paying a portion of my taxes to rid myslef of the anger that my state houses should-be death row inmates and gives ppl like ol dirty bastard a thousand a week.

[rubyraks]

Re: The New Atheists

You see that's where I disagree. I'd like to see the built in incentives of the capitalist system incorporated into a socialist mentality. I haven't exactly worked out the details, but I believe taking those into consideration will at least address the inherent weaknesses of both systems.

[Miguel]

Re: The New Atheists

so lets place the dumbs in a socialism state and the smart ones in a capitalist state
.......... and i dont know if im late here but i think religion is just a control mechanism the worked pretty well for the monarchys in old centuries .. now itis crumbling appart

[thesightless]

Re: The New Atheists

neither system works

in capitalism you have ppl crying that they dont make enough and high skill jobs generate too much wealth

in socialism you have the opposite. the rich get screwed.

no win situation. either ppl can get lazy and accept socialism, or gain desire and embrace capitalism. neither idea meshes well with the whole of society when dumb and smart ppl are together.

[Yao]

Re: The New Atheists

if only that were possible Ruby...both on their own they're self destructive in the end IMO

[rubyraks]

Re: The New Atheists

socialism has promise but i dont know the extent to which it could really work out practically in todays day and age...i mean perhaps smaller sligtly isolated countries may be able to make it happen, but it seems impossible... plus there are inherent problmes with socialism even though i am more for it that this shit democracy ideal....
but equal poverty doesnt seem to be the answer...that being said however, i do wish and hope that a system may be devised where we can atleast eliminate the ridiculous shit the poorest of the poor (which is actually like fukin 2/3 of the world) have to deal with....
welfare..... circulation of wealth is answer..not tax....but a reliable consistent 'relatively' fair system of circulating wealth to ensure no one dies of fuked up shit like drinking contaminated water, or hunger and preventable disease...and the hoarding and accumilating needs to stop...but then i mean its all good to say this stuff...but how it would really work im not sure yet....i doubt however that socialism the way it stands would provide the key....

although you were a little late to post ...I hear you on the socialism front. I'm a firm believer that the best political system I could humbly come up with (based on present political philosophy) is one that is a hybrid of a socialist system and it's sense of fairness and equality and everyone matters philosophy together with the incentives side of a capitalist system. The anything goes mentality of the socialist system (and it's propensity towards laziness and living off the state) and the inherent greed and selfish nature of the capitalist system are both doomed for failure...we need something in between.

[rubyraks]

Re: The New Atheists

I for me have for some reason never even believed in a higher power, but then again my parents have always left me free to think of life what I want. All it takes for me to discard the possible existence of a god is looking around, and especially looking at people. It may sound strange, but seeing how fearful people are in general, how easily they can be influenced, how much they need something to hold on to...or to justify the way they live their life. it just doesn't work for me, but it does for many - and it's not that hard to imagine that religion might also be something grown from the need for explanations for terrible, frightening or strange things that could not be explained from an understanding of natural processes. Heck, imagine a Neanderthal in a cave looking at the lighting in the sky during a heavy storm, hearing the thunder rolling by...we all know what happens, but that guy probably didn't have a clue! So...enter higher powers that can be used to attribute certain inexplicable things to. I cannot prove it, but to me it sounds pretty damn logical (through reasoning and looking at people in an anthropological way) that religion is something that literally evolved from humanity in a quest to find answers or at least get an all-covering explanation.


I think I'll stick to not believing in a god or higher controlling power and simply take the world as it is, and how I experience it.

I'm right on board with all that and the sad thing is if you look at the various religious texts, old bible, new bible, koran and take your choice of others, you could very easily decipher the human intent and psychosis in developing many of the stories, laws, etc. So many of them are so easily attributed to humanity and our own inherent faults and biases that I find it just plain impossible to attribute them to god.

[Lorn]

Re: The New Atheists

That would be awesome.

[thesightless]

Re: The New Atheists

i want one of the hindu representations to , quite literally, descend from the heavens. have like a HUGE storm over the middle east, i mena like 40 days of rain, and then some cow/man hyrbid with 10 arms come down from the clouds over jerusalem or mecca, and speak, and have the voice be heard for miles. THAT would be funny.

''you are all wrong, i am god, and im pissed''

lighning bolts, thunder, the whole nine yards. cats and dogs living together.

[Yao]

Re: The New Atheists

i dont think you are understanding what im trying to say, now everytime i begin these types of conversations, its best to discuss the term of which we are talking about, if we can agree on what the word means then we can move on. if we disagree on definitions then we cant go any further.

i disagree with the word "god". no one has ever really defined to me what that means, theyve tried but i get all sorts of answers that are really subjective to the person, even when the bible tries to explain, it doesnt make sense to me. i also have heard many times that "god" will reveal him/herself to me and then ill understand. these revelations that these people have can be explained through science( you will probably argue that its my belief, perhaps you are right at that point) but since they cant quite explain it, they attribute it to god. i have no belief in the supernatural nor have i experienced anything supernatural to suggest a "higher power".

to me god is no different than lets say, santa clause. when i was a kid, i could not reason like an adult. i believed what i was told. hey there were presents under the tree, it must have been santa! now as we get older and our reasoning skills develop, and some of us will see through the facade ourseves when we catch our parents doing it themselves (empirical evidence) or we are just flat out told, its only then do we realize its a sham and learn to accept it, because its not really a big deal we know were still getting presents.
now how are people supposed to react when someone tells you god doesnt exist? this creates many problems as we built our lives around this supposed fact. questions of purpose and morality and immortality come to mind, we were happy with thinking that if i do good, i will live forever in paradise! how do you throw that away? it took me a long time to get to the point i am today. there was no switch in my head that made me atheist from christian. id say its a collection of my personal experiences and everything i have read and learned. i know that everybody is different nor do i expect everyone to come to the same conclusion i do.

there have been hundreds of thousands of gods throughout humanity. i just choose to believe in one less god than you do.

this post is long enough, i wont even go into why i dont agree with the term "faith" either,lol

I for me have for some reason never even believed in a higher power, but then again my parents have always left me free to think of life what I want. All it takes for me to discard the possible existence of a god is looking around, and especially looking at people. It may sound strange, but seeing how fearful people are in general, how easily they can be influenced, how much they need something to hold on to...or to justify the way they live their life. it just doesn't work for me, but it does for many - and it's not that hard to imagine that religion might also be something grown from the need for explanations for terrible, frightening or strange things that could not be explained from an understanding of natural processes. Heck, imagine a Neanderthal in a cave looking at the lighting in the sky during a heavy storm, hearing the thunder rolling by...we all know what happens, but that guy probably didn't have a clue! So...enter higher powers that can be used to attribute certain inexplicable things to. I cannot prove it, but to me it sounds pretty damn logical (through reasoning and looking at people in an anthropological way) that religion is something that literally evolved from humanity in a quest to find answers or at least get an all-covering explanation.


I think I'll stick to not believing in a god or higher controlling power and simply take the world as it is, and how I experience it.

[Miroslav]

Re: The New Atheists

socialism has promise but i dont know the extent to which it could really work out practically in todays day and age...i mean perhaps smaller sligtly isolated countries may be able to make it happen, but it seems impossible... plus there are inherent problmes with socialism even though i am more for it that this shit democracy ideal....
but equal poverty doesnt seem to be the answer...that being said however, i do wish and hope that a system may be devised where we can atleast eliminate the ridiculous shit the poorest of the poor (which is actually like fukin 2/3 of the world) have to deal with....
welfare..... circulation of wealth is answer..not tax....but a reliable consistent 'relatively' fair system of circulating wealth to ensure no one dies of fuked up shit like drinking contaminated water, or hunger and preventable disease...and the hoarding and accumilating needs to stop...but then i mean its all good to say this stuff...but how it would really work im not sure yet....i doubt however that socialism the way it stands would provide the key....

Your comments show a keen assessment of the subtler issues, which I do agree with... if only I had the answer!..