Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[runningman]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Wanna bet?? Don't doubt the Israel influence in the US..

[floridaorange]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

yeah. . .possible but I can't see anyone getting involved to help Israel if they start shit.

really? why is that

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Because of the current economic situation and the impact on oil prices such a conflict will have. Because the US administration is finally starting to realize the fact that the only way Israel will be satisfied is if it wipes out all of its Arab neighbors. Because Iran is not Iraq and is a hell of a lot better equipped...the west can not afford to get involved in a conflict with a nation that has been supplied by some of the latest Russian weaponry including high end AA systems (both financially and in casualties). Because the west is already being challenged as a dominant force and a open conflict will decrease its chance of coming out victorious. Finally because the majority of public opinion would not support such a war.

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Because the US administration is finally starting to realize the fact that the only way Israel will be satisfied is if it wipes out all of its Arab neighbors.

And your evidence of Israel wanting to wipe out its Arab neighbors is where exactly?

Its all very well and good coming out with rhetoric, back your statement up some type of empirical evidence please, or STFU.

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Well from the founding fathers of Israel till today this hasn't changed. There was never much support for a two state solution on the Israel's side. Iran has made first steps towards recognizing Israel but the AIPAC influence is simply too powerful...they would prefer Israel to maintain its importance in US foreign policy. Importance which has drastically diminished since the end of the Cold War.

Anyway I am not going to argue about an issue you feel so strongly about. if you want to know where I get the bulk of my opinions on this topic read "Plowshares into Swords; from Zionism to Israel" by Arno J. Mayer (a Jewish Professor at Princeton) and "Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" by John Mersheimer and Stephan Walt.

You most likely will not bother reading this...so here is an interview with the authors of one of the books (I already posted it in another thread)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSXZNm2jGVE[/YOUTUBE]

[runningman]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

shpira it is kind of hard to like your neighbours when the muslim brotherhood is very much alive and well today. The Muslim Brotherhood is the biggest threat to stability in the region not Israel.

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

You most likely will not bother reading this

I've already read that book thanks, but that does'nt answer my question - rhetoric aside, what evidence do you have that Israel won't be satisfied etc.....?

Stop trying to quote second rate, at best, literature, and back up your previous statement.

And don't worry, I always read threads that I participate in.

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

shpira it is kind of hard to like your neighbours when the muslim brotherhood is very much alive and well today. The Muslim Brotherhood is the biggest threat to stability in the region not Israel.

The Reason that they are a threat today is Israel.

I've already read that book thanks, but that does'nt answer my question - rhetoric aside, what evidence do you have that Israel won't be satisfied etc.....?

You read what book?

If you had read the first book then you would know what I mean...I really can't be bothered to go through the book and quote historical references of the early Zionist movement. The Book by Arno J. Mayer starts in the 1800's and traces the creation of Israel quoting references from letter's from the early Zionists as well as those from world leaders at the time. Read the Book.

anyway going out now... sorry can't write a more extensive response at this time.

p.s. I am not running away from the discussion I will give you some "evidence" later

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

You read what book?

The Mersheimer and Walt book.

Quoting history is not evidence of what is going on today. You claimed, that Israel would not be happy unless they wipe out their Arab neighbors - and yet, you can offer no evidence whatsoever that that is their intention.

anyway going out now... sorry can't write a more extensive response at this time.

p.s. I am not running away from the discussion I will give you some "evidence" later

Mmmm, really! Well before you reply, maybe you would like to pay some attention to all the opportunities the Palestinians have had to have their own home land. While you're at it, pay particular attention to Iran - you have naively stated:

Iran has made first steps towards recognizing Israel

Is this the same Iran that has called for Israels destruction? Maybe you would like to offer us a reference to this statement?

And while you're at it, has you well know Hamas won the last parlimentary election in the PA, maybe you would furnish us with any evidence from Hamas that they are prepared for a two state solution.

You seem very well equiped to quote the anti-israel brigade whilst ignoring the reality of the situation - might I suggest that unless you can actually back up some of your comments with empirical evidence you desist immediatly - afterall its a bitch to get your ass wiped in an open forum.

[DIDI]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

^^^ Which open forum are you reading.??? I see really useful information, and a clarity of thought coming from Shpira.!

What I get from you is "If you don't agree with me, you are anti-Israel , anti-jew etc. " Fortunately a lot of Jews are actually a lot more open to discussion than you are.

Btw What greater evidence could you have about Israel's attitude than the horrific happenings in Palestine ??

Great Vid Shpira !!!

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

What I get from you is "If you don't agree with me, you are anti-Israel , anti-jew etc. " Fortunately a lot of Jews are actually a lot more open to discussion than you are.

Really. I have five years of postings for you back up that comment - please show me where if anyone has disageed with me I have called them anti-Israel or anti-Jewish?

I don't give a shit whether you are anti-israel or anti-jew. What i care about is making glib comments without anything to back them up.

Now before you get your knickers in a twist, lets actually go back and see what I queried, and asked for information on:

Because the US administration is finally starting to realize the fact that the only way Israel will be satisfied is if it wipes out all of its Arab neighbors.

Now, where is the evidence that Israel will only be satisfied if it wipes out its Arab neighbors? Come on. I'm waiting Didi.

Shipra has offered no clarity of thought, all he/she has done is thrown out a blanket statement with absolutely nothing to back it, in the hope that it sticks.

Well it doesn't. Back it up or like I said earlier STFU.

[DIDI]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

^^ I don't have anything to prove , one of the reasons I haven't engaged with you in these forums before is your blindness to all bar your own viewpoint. I think that was probably a good strategy You could put mountains of evidence in front of you and you would be blind to it. !!


Btw Knickers totally untwisted

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

^^ I don't have anything to prove , one of the reasons I haven't engaged with you in these forums before is your blindness to all bar your own viewpoint. I think that was probably a good strategy You could put mountains of evidence in front of you and you would be blind to it. !!

Btw Knickers totally untwisted

'
And yet you offer nothing. No proof to your comments about

"If you don't agree with me, you are anti-Israel , anti-jew etc.

Speak on here to anyone I have debated with before and you will realise fools i dont suffer gladly - but back up your comments, and we can debate - for unless you offer that back up it would be like debating George W Bush, you know the right words in the right order, but you can't actually tell me why you are sprouting them.

And pleased to hear about the untwisted knickers

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

According to your logic one could never prove anything in social sciences. If history is no proof what is???

Is this the same Iran that has called for Israels destruction? Maybe you would like to offer us a reference to this statement?

They actually argue that Israel should not exist and this is a classic example of twisting the words they use. If someone is anti - Zionist he is not necessarily anti-Semitic.

And anyway...Iran has called for Israel destruction and Israel has not called for Iran' destruction right? You are so blinded by your personal beliefs that they have clouded your thought. Of course I can't prove that EVERYONE in Israel wants to sort out the Arabs in the region...just like you can't prove that everyone in Iran wants to destroy Israel.

What I can prove is that historically speaking no real attempt has ever been made on Israel's part to secure peace with the Palestinians or that there was never any real popular support for a two state solution. My statement is based on Israels foreign policy actions over the years and the behavior of those who consider themselves to be acting in Israels interest as well as elected officials. Any real peace that was achieved between the Arab's and the Jews has been reached because of Western involvement and Western pressure on both sides. . .an now the West seems to have forgotten that. I really don't have to prove anything as we can all see that Israels looking for a conflict with Iran...and we all here agree that Israel is going to invade Iran not the other way around...that kinda demonstrates that Israel is looking for a conflict with an Arab nation wouldn't you say? . . .so what more do you need...

My point is that Israels actions are just as bad; and that if war broke out I wouldn't care who won as both sides are equally deluded. . .just like you are. Asking for empirical evidence about social theory. Hand me my ass back please lol.

And for the record if you can't have a civilised debate and have to resort to insults than I really have nothing to "debate" about with you.

I just think its really sad...the Jewish people were given land to settle in and create a state in large part due to all the prosecution they have experianced around the world and then what do they do...Thye create camps for refugees and war against the people that lived on the same land. Just goes to show that people really don't learn anything from their experiances.

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Quoting history is not evidence of what is going on today.

For the record I totally disagree with this statement.