The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

[Miroslav]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^ Here's my fear, though: the nations and people that generally see him as legitimate and as "culturally ok" are the same ones that think it's normal to force everyone to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, to beat people if they express different opinions, to heavily censor information for anything "anti-Islamic", and to burn a woman's face with acid if she doesn't want to wear a veil in public. Therefore, I don't see them as very legitimate, either.

I'm not that much of a cultural relativist. I don't think those behaviors are ever ok in any culture at any time in the world. I think they are simply malicious and barbaric. In that sense, most Islam-centric nations have a lot to long way to go before they ever join the civilized 21st century civilized world, where the rest of us have already realized that granting basic freedoms to people is actually a preferable thing.

[Shpira]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

different culture I would say...and yes some nations do see him as legitimate to an extent that at least they think his people don't want to rebel against him

[Miroslav]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^ I wish I could share your optimism. I'm not sure how many people in the world have seen Ahmadinejad as legitimate, except for other ruthless dictators and angry, bearded Islamic whackjobs. But I don't think that bothers him one bit. When you control everything and people cower before your military might (and soon your nuclear stockpile), you can get by well enough without that much legitimacy.

Just look at that asshole in North Korea: I'm pretty sure the entire nation would be thrilled if he and his goons would just drop dead already so that they could finally join the 21st century - and yet he's still there, happily ruining everyone's life.

[Shpira]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Maybe organic is the wrong word. I more mean that it isn't something that we in the US is actively foisting upon unwilling citizens, it is coming from within.

Do you think what is going on right now in Iran bears the hallmarks of an actual revolution? Put another way, is anything going to come of this, or will it just fizzle out over time? At this point, I have a bit of a hard time believing that Ahmadinejad can come out of this in office with any sort of legitimacy. From what I gather of the polls, it wouldn't have been that unreasonable for him to have won the election fair and square (although by nowhere near the margin claimed), but by virtue of the wild overreaching in rigging the thing, any recount that has him winning will necessarily be viewed as suspect, even if it's accurate. Given the reaction to the election results, I can't imagine that that would be well-received.

I think Miro and you are right that nothing is going to come out of this NOW. But in my opinion its the beginning of the end for Ahmadinejad. He has lost any form of legitimacy he had in the eyes of the international community and his own people. Its only a question of time before the pot boils over and I am not so sure that the Army will shoot its own citizens...but I guess we will see.

[Miroslav]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Unfortunately, this revolution will likely not last long nor change anything in Iran in the near term. The military is in Adhmadinejad's control, and they will stop at nothing to crush people who go too far and forcefully reign everyone back in line. And the rest of the world is unlikely to intervene.

Ahmadinejad and the Iranians in charge should know that the rest of the world is not stupid; we all know that "democratic elections" and "Iran" go together like oil and water. They wouldn't recognize democracy over there if it came up and bit them in the ass. The elections are just a circus to lend legitimacy to Ahmadinejad's reign. We all know that he is a ruthless dictator and that there was no way he was going to "lose" this "election", no matter what.

[Shiva]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Very shocky whats happening there at the moment...

[toasty]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Great video, sends a chill up my spine, in a good way:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLo_6Qp1eTk[/youtube]

The audio is not messed up, they just aren't making any noise -- silently taking to the streets in mass protest, rings louder than any chant IMO -- I love it.

[toasty]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.

Maybe organic is the wrong word. I more mean that it isn't something that we in the US is actively foisting upon unwilling citizens, it is coming from within.

Do you think what is going on right now in Iran bears the hallmarks of an actual revolution? Put another way, is anything going to come of this, or will it just fizzle out over time? At this point, I have a bit of a hard time believing that Ahmadinejad can come out of this in office with any sort of legitimacy. From what I gather of the polls, it wouldn't have been that unreasonable for him to have won the election fair and square (although by nowhere near the margin claimed), but by virtue of the wild overreaching in rigging the thing, any recount that has him winning will necessarily be viewed as suspect, even if it's accurate. Given the reaction to the election results, I can't imagine that that would be well-received.

[runningman]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

^^^ So true

[bobjuice]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Good luck to em - a million people took to the streets in the uk to protest at mr Bliar's illegal invasion of Iraq but did it stop him? Did it fuck.
Let's hope Iran shapes up to be more of a democracy than this shit-hole

[i!!ustrious]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

verily so; shit is redic:

http://www.savagebreakfast.com/2009/06/cyberwar-is-here.html

[thesightless]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

yeah, im hitting twitter hoping to see some real chaos. this could be exactly what the middle east needed. a citizen driven rise to democracy caused by another islamic nutjob refusing to give in and deferring to the morons in the big towels.

[Shpira]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.

[toasty]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

It is really fascinating to watch this unfold in the broader context of the last decade or so. Iran has been demonized for years, and as to the hard-liners, rightly so, but there is this evidently gigantic underbelly of the Iranian population that is much more progressive and yearning for a more free Iran, to the point of (near?) revolution. It's a little ironic, I think, that we went into Iraq promoting "freedom" at the barrel of a gun, and right next door, a fellow member of the Axis of Evil has this vibe just percolating up organically.

[Shpira]

Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Cia!!!

Yeah reading this I think it might be quite likely as well...a cheaper way of dealing with a problem.