odd article. but made me think about it.

[thesightless]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003191

dont know why but i had to think about this one for awhile. lotta cold truth to it, but its slanted to a degree or ten.

never read any of her works although i have heard of her, but i gave it a google and turns out she has been a hard leftist all of her life, but this article sounds like it was written by a neo conserv. at times.

sadly, a lot of her feelings are shared by a lot of america. but i also see why.

[Yao]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.

They are also in Europe. They are in Paris where the mellifluous Jacques Chirac does not give a damn for peace but plans to satisfy his vanity with the Nobel Peace Prize. Where there is no wish to remove Saddam Hussein because Saddam Hussein means the oil that the French companies pump from Iraqi wells. And where (forgetting a little flaw named Petain) France chases its Napoleonic desire to dominate the European Union, to establish its hegemony over it. They are in Berlin, where the party of the mediocre Gerhard Schr?der won the elections by comparing Mr. Bush to Hitler, where American flags are soiled with the swastika, and where, in the dream of playing the masters again, Germans go arm-in-arm with the French. They are in Rome where the communists left by the door and re-entered through the window like the birds of the Hitchcock movie. And where, pestering the world with his ecumenism, his pietism, his Thirdworldism, Pope Wojtyla receives Tariq Aziz as a dove or a martyr who is about to be eaten by lions. (Then he sends him to Assisi where the friars escort him to the tomb of St. Francis.) In the other European countries, it is more or less the same. In Europe your enemies are everywhere, Mr. Bush. What you quietly call "differences of opinion" are in reality pure hate. Because in Europe pacifism is synonymous with anti-Americanism, sir, and accompanied by the most sinister revival of anti-Semitism the anti-Americanism triumphs as much as in the Islamic world. Haven't your ambassadors informed you? Europe is no longer Europe. It is a province of Islam, as Spain and Portugal were at the time of the Moors. It hosts almost 16 million Muslim immigrants and teems with mullahs, imams, mosques, burqas, chadors. It lodges thousands of Islamic terrorists whom governments don't know how to identify and control. People are afraid, and in waving the flag of pacifism--pacifism synonymous with anti-Americanism--they feel protected.

Wondering if she has the guts to say that in my face:

France has it?s oil connections in Iraq, the US in Saudi-Arabia. So now France is the bad guy while the US can keep on being friends with the regime in Saudi-Arabia? We call that measuring with two standards miss Fallachi.

Europe may have been weak in this case according to some, but that does not justify such ruthless and rhetoric lashing out IMO. Pacifism is not by a long shot synonymous with anti-Americanism, this would degrade any advocates of diplomacy to being lapdogs of the anti-American lobby in the Middle East and Europe, while there is a clear difference. And we are not in the least a province of Islam. To make that statement is downright insulting: if you don?t beat and shoot the Islam you?re their expanded territory all of a sudden? Looks like the war has left some serious scars in miss Fallachi?s head, maybe so severe it has tampered her ability to put things in perspective?
There is a lot going on in combatting terrorism here too, more than most people know of. And people do not in the least feel protected by waving the pacifist flag: for those who do, it a sincere conviction. I am not a pacifist at all by the way: I believe in some cases violence can solve a problem, but not in all cases. Justified or not, I want my leaders to be fair with me if I am to put my trust in them: and Bush and my government have not been fair at all.
I?m voting against the European consitution 1st of june. Why? Cos it doesn?t deal with immigration problems effectively. Cos it looks like it?s a haste-job. We are no unity by far yet. Funny though, how she continues to use the word Europe to descibe the political entity and generalises it, and at the same time dissects it, undoing her own generalisation.

At this very moment, Muslims are having hard times in Europe: there is a shift occurring towards a more xenophobe attitude around here. Any Muslim here will have to make double the effort now to prove he?s actually willing to adopt our values & standards. Suspicion has risen, and is still rising. Europe, and my country in particular, have been too lenient with who they?ve let inside the borders. Now we pay the price, but things are changing. If you fail to see that, you?re not worthy of opneing your mouth on Europe and the Islam.

Besides, Europe does not care for the 221,484 Americans who died for her in the Second World War. Rather than gratitude, their cemeteries give rise to resentment. As a consequence, in Europe nobody will back this war. Not even nations which are officially allied with the U.S., not even the prime ministers who call you "My friend George." (Like Silvio Berlusconi.) In Europe you only have one friend, one ally, sir: Tony Blair. But Mr. Blair too leads a country which is invaded by the Moors. A country that hides that resentment. Even his party opposes him, and by the way: I owe you an apology, Mr. Blair. In my book "The Rage and the Pride," I was unfair to you. Because I wrote that you would not persevere with your guts, that you would drop them as soon as it would no longer serve your political interests. With impeccable coherence, instead, you are sacrificing those interests to your convictions. Indeed, I apologize. I also withdraw the phrase I used to comment on your excess of courtesy toward Islamic culture: "If our culture has the same value as the one that imposes the burqa, why do you spend your summers in my Tuscany and not in Saudi Arabia?" Now I say: "My Tuscany is your Tuscany, sir. My home is your home.?

Stay there please, don?t come back. Resentment? So all the celebrations around Europe celebrating the victory over Hitler and his warmachine (4th ad 5th of may here) are?what?fake? Insincere? Should we stop doing that and let the memory of those guesome years just evaporate? Might as well do that, just have a national nameless holiday, cos we don?t give fuck anyway, right?

The fact that Europeans do not in general think like neo-con Americans does not mean you can discard any views that do not match yours as being inferior (cause that?s what?s happening here) miss Fallachi: there is not one truth or way of dealing with situations. If you had things your way half this planet would be in shambles for not following your rules, and what?s left would be living their lives your way. Frankly I?m amazed by such an imbalanced view on Europe in general, given the fact that you hail form Italy. But then again, IMO Europe should ditch that corruption infested cowboy country until such time that it has gotten rid of Berlusconi and his fucking network.

I?d rather be a fucking partizan than obey by your rules.

[thesightless]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.

Yao, we really need to get you published.


lets get you two in the ring together. but you have to fight with one arm, she is like 74


but on a serious note, there is a very large anti-american and anti-semetic view in europe. it does indeed exist. this country brings a lot of it upon itself as well. but even you have to admit, the americans who visit mainland europe (excluding UK/ IRL) seem to notice it, moreso, its widely publicised here in america.

[Yao]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.



I'll head-butt her! Tie both of my arms behind my back!

[face]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.

Yao, we really need to get you published.


lets get you two in the ring together. but you have to fight with one arm, she is like 74


but on a serious note, there is a very large anti-american and anti-semetic view in europe. it does indeed exist. this country brings a lot of it upon itself as well. but even you have to admit, the americans who visit mainland europe (excluding UK/ IRL) seem to notice it, moreso, its widely publicised here in america.

a. not exactly sure what you mean by "anti-semitism." if you mean racism against people of the jewish faith, then i wouldn't limit anti-semitism to europe. living in new york city, you might overlook such evidence, but in the rest of this country, racism against jews is still very much prevalent. if by "anti-semitism" you really meant "anti-zionism," then i would probably agree with you more. there's a difference between supporting the palestinian cause and empathizing with the plight of the indigenous people of palestine on the one hand, and holding strong feelings of hate and contempt for the jewish faith or race on the other.

b. again, not sure what you mean by "anti-american." the negative attitude you are referring to, i think, is really disapproval of the policies of the US government. i've traveled throughout the middle east and europe. the reactions are always the same. america is great, americans are great; however, the government is where they have issues. call it an inferiority complex, call it jealousy--i don't really know. but i do know that europeans, and the world in general, realy, do not look down upon the american people.

p.s. i'm back guys. been a long time since i posted on here. was really busy with school until recently. cheers.

[Yao]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.

Welcome back Face, it's been a while indeed ;-)

Hey Sightless, I understand what you wrote, but I think Face's nuances are quite correct: there is indeed a relatively high degree of anti-zionism present here, and a lot of people just take sides with the underdog without even diving deeper into the conflict. Must be the European spirit of always taking the side of the weaker party, be it right or wrong

I'm not one of those however...I got Davetlv educating me a bit on this, heheh.

Anti-Americanism...this is a bit amiguous around here: Like face said, it's usually the government peepz around here dissaprove of. In general Europeans like Americans when they meet, I think mostly of the positive attitude Americans somehow seem to have when meeting foreigners on a trip. On the other hand, there is still some resistance against the dominance of American culture throughout the world (you know, Pepsi, Coca Cola, McDonalds) < these things have become iconic to the American society and for a lot of people represent the unstoppable consumerism of the West. They only forget they themselves are in it too...lol.

As for me...this forum has given me a chance to get to know you yanks a little better, and so far i'm still getting along just fine with most of you...I think

the thing with that article though was actually more that while I'm always trying to look at things from more than one side, I cannot stand people that are so extreme in their views. There's just never one side to a story, and people that really believe in just one 'truth' are, especially in politics, a great threat to dialogue and thus concensus. Know who also believed in only one truth?


Hilter
The Pope
Idi Amin
Saddam Hussein
and so on....

I think I made my point here...lol

[thesightless]

Re: odd article. but made me think about it.

lol, me too. i am a left leaning person. i think personal freedom is the single most important thing a person should have. a lot of time, i keep an eye out for some of the more conservative and extreme liberal books and what not,, just to see why they say what they say. there are some crazy neo conserv out there that belive we should all have chips put into our skin so the gov't can tack us, that shit is crazy. but on the other hand there are a few ultra liberals that have no idea of the meaning of the word "consequences" and "responsibility". i try to read what both extremes are saying and figure out the middle ground.

right now i am reading this book called "Porn Generation : How Social Liberalism is Corrupting our Future". it obviously written by a conservative wackbag, but it really does give insight into some of the downfalls of some of the social policies and thier affects on culture. weird, but worth a read. doesnt hurt to see how other people view what i believe is right. kinda like knowing your enemy so to speak.

i just finsished a book a few weeks back about how the republican ultra right are taking us into a rank and file restrictive society that was written really well. the author wrote about how societies intially began as super conservative areas that feared the church and how we began our departure from that. he went all the way through modern times explaining how we are moving back to that era, although it isnt the church nowadays, its more based on big brother putting his hands everywhere and not letting society and human nature take control as it had.