16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

[malayday]

war on hezbollah?....wat a fuking scam....this is a joke...bloody inexcusable one at that..they say barrages of rockets continously falling on israel and killing civilians...wat and 7 days of that and 15 of them are dead?....over 350 have been killed...over 350...majority have been wmen and children....and the airstrikes?...the bombardment...israel is using phosphorous filled rockets....because this chemical has not been addressed directly in the charter which came out after the napalm used by the u.s.....every day i see little kids who will have burns and scrars for life....families are destroyed everyday....as you read....aparment buildings...power stations?....water supply?...and then roads demolished....and then wat flyers coming in to south lebenon telling e to leave...haha...ill lock you in a room and then tell you run out cuz im going to set it a blaze..i did my part yeah?...haha....
israel has such an advanced hi tech army....wat a piece of shit....i cant think straight right now..im sorry if i sound anti whatever....at this point i feel like taking up arms my self....we know there is a hidden agenda...dont listen to the bullshit....innocent people are dead and dieing....this is a violation of humanitarian law....violation of human rights.....an absolutely unproportioned un diplomatic response which was planned....they just want to kill...and america is supporting thir right to 'self defence'...seems like they playing some cheezy basketball game where the best defence is the best offence....kill kill kill......
and this hi tech amazing army is incompetent too...cuz the rockets are still firing...i hope they are no more death of israely innocent civilians....but i know more lebanese inoocent children WILL die......and is it ok? wat makes it ok?

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

ITS funny. i know everyone has a bias in one way or another, but what do you say about the innocent people killed in the name of these terrorists who hijacked a religion into chaos. last time i looked, the militant groups account for roughly 400-500 deaths a week. you never posted here b4 about it. but once a controversal country stands up for itself, you scream. personallly, i think its a little out of hand at this point, but i still believe they have every right to defend themselves at all costs. and frankly, the lebanese government also belives this as they have been holding thier military in the north, albeit a tentative pause, but they are allowing isreal to get rid of an illegal army who preys on innocents.

what exactly are your thoughts on how hezzbollah, hamas, and the ICU operate? is it ok because the USA doesnt have ties to somalia, gaza, west bank, and india/kashmir? or is isreal just a target because they are a more headline driven country? and lastly, how would you handle these groups? negotiations obviously arent the cure, as they continue to bomb, capture and undermine isrealis and innoncent worldwide .

[beanzncheez]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

^ ^ I'd be surprised if he comes back at you with some logical response.

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

that's just it, thier response, while very heavy handed, is the only logical solution at this point. for several reasons.
1. lebanon cannot handle hezzbollah, and they are not willing to send thier army in on thier own people.
2. lebanon has its own problems with syria
3. no negotiations have worked, not since they began trying.
4. the world as a whole, needs to step up and disarm these militias. and frankly, the militias i speak of are willing to die in favor of thier religious based hatred. yes innocents are dying, but we all act if isreal is launching surprise attacks. they are not. in any way. even lebanon acknowledges this. the IAF has been dropping pamplets informing the people to either evacuate or wave the white flag.
5. no one else is willing.

this is so far past a peaceful point, now is the time to halt the works of hamas, hezz, and the ICU. if it takes violence, then we have to deal with it. if we do not stop and eliminate them now, they will only re arm, and attack again.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Maladay, If you are in Lebanon, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all the pain and suffering you are going through. Its natural that you should feel angry at those that are causing you such pain. You should demand some answers from the International community.

But you wont. Why, because those to blame are Hizbollah, your government, Syria and Iran.

When Syrian backed, and Iranian armed, Hizbollah hide in your homes, use those homes for storage of weapons, use those who live in those homes as human shields, I can understand why you attack Israel on these pages.

After all had your own government, and the internaitonal community, ensured the implementation of Res 1559, you would not be the position you are in, and therefore you would not be attacking Israel on these pages.

Had Hozbollah not rained rockets into northern Israel as a pretext to murder and abduct members of the IDF on Israeli soil, you would not be in the position you are in now and I would not have to read your attack on Israel on these pages.

So continue to attack Israel here Maladay, for whilst you and your brethren continue to attack Israel nothing is being done about cleaning Lebanon of outside control which plummets your country back a generation or two.

So, like I said above, I'm sorry that things are rough for you, but you need to focus your anger at those who have ensured that your country is destroyed and your citizens used as human shields for a militia that your government has agreed to disarm.

[Jenks]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Good read.....http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/740949.html

[dig72]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Empire: War and Propaganda

The US role in supporting Israel’s military assault on Lebanon falls into a pattern of imperial tyranny, where history is rewritten to suit America’s needs while Europe stands cravenly by.

By John Pilger

07/26/06 " The National Museum of American History is part of the celebrated Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC. Surrounded by mock Graeco-Roman edifices with their soaring Corinthian columns, rampant eagles and chiselled profundities, it is at the centre of Empire, though the word itself is engraved nowhere. This is understandable, as the likes of Hitler and Mussolini were proud imperialists, too: on a "great mission to rid the world of evil", as President Bush has also said.

One of the museum's exhibitions is called "The Price of Freedom: Americans at war". In the spirit of Santa's Magic Grotto, this travesty of revisionism helps us understand how silence and omission are so successfully deployed in free, media-saturated societies. The shuffling lines of ordinary people, many of them children, are dispensed the vainglorious message that America has always "built freedom and democracy" - notably at Hiroshima and Nagasaki where the atomic bombing saved "a million lives", and in Vietnam where America's crusaders were "determined to stop communist expansion", and in Iraq where the same true hearts "employed air strikes of unprecedented precision".

The words "invasion" and "controversial" make only fleeting appearances; there is no hint that the "great mission" has overseen, since 1945, the attempted overthrow of 50 governments, many of them democracies, along with the crushing of popular movements struggling against tyranny and the bombing of 30 countries, causing the loss of countless lives. In central America, in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan's arming and training of gangster-armies saw off 300,000 people; in Guatemala, this was described by the UN as genocide. No word of this is uttered in the Grotto. Indeed, thanks to such displays, Americans can venerate war, comforted by the crimes of others and knowing nothing about their own.

In Santa's Grotto, there is no place for Howard Zinn's honest People's History of the United States, or I F Stone's revelation of the truth of what the museum calls "the forgotten war" in Korea, or Mark Twain's definition of patriotism as the need to keep "multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries". Moreover, at the Price of Freedom Shop, you can buy US Army Monopoly, and a "grateful nation blanket" for just $200. The exhibition's corporate sponsors include Sears, Roebuck, the mammoth retailer. The point is taken.

To understand the power of indoctrination in free societies is also to understand the subversive power of the truth it suppresses. During the Blair era in Britain, precocious revisionists of Empire have been embraced by the pro-war media. Inspired by America's Messianic claims of "victory" in the cold war, their pseudo-histories have sought not only to hose down the blood slick of slavery, plunder, famine and genocide that was British imperialism ("the Empire was an exemplary force for good": Andrew Roberts) but also to rehabilitate Gladstonian convictions of superiority and promote "the imposition of western values", as Niall Ferguson puts it.

Ferguson relishes "values", an unctuous concept that covers both the barbarism of the imperial past and today's ruthless, rigged "free" market. The new code for race and class is "culture". Thus, the enduring, piratical campaign by the rich and powerful against the poor and weak, especially those with natural resources, has become a "clash of civilisations". Since Francis Fukuyama wrote his drivel about "the end of history" (since recanted), the task of the revisionists and mainstream journalism has been to popularise the "new" imperialism, as in Ferguson's War of the World series for Channel 4 and his frequent soundbites on the BBC. In this way, the public is "softened up" for the rapacious invasion of countries on false pretences, including a not unlikely nuclear attack on Iran, and the ascent in Washington of an executive dictatorship, as called for by Vice-President Cheney. So imminent is the latter that a supine Congress will almost certainly reverse the Supreme Court's recent decision to outlaw the Guantanamo kangaroo courts. The judge who wrote the majority opinion - in a high court Bush himself stacked - sounded his alarm through this seminal quotation of James Madison: "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether her editary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."

The catastrophe in the Middle East is a product of such an imperial tyranny. It is clearly a US-ordained operation, with the long-planned assault on Gaza and the destruction of Leba non pretexts for a wider campaign with the goal of installing American puppets in Lebanon, Syria and eventually Iran. "The pay-off time has come," wrote the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe; "now the proxy should salvage the entangled Empire."

The attendant propaganda - the abuse of language and eternal hypocrisy - has reached its nadir in recent weeks. An Israeli soldier belonging to an invasion force was captured and held, legitimately, as a prisoner of war. Reported as a "kidnapping", this set off yet more slaughter of Palestinian civilians. The seizure of two Palestinian civilians two days before the capture of the soldier was of no interest. Neither was the incarceration of thousands of Palestinian hostages in Israeli prisons, and the torture of many of them, as documented by Amnesty. The kidnapped soldier story cancelled any serious inquiry into Israel's plans to reinvade Gaza, from which it had staged a phoney withdrawal. The fact and meaning of Hamas's self-imposed 16-month ceasefire were lost in inanities about "recognising Israel", along with Israel's state of terror in Gaza - the dropping of a 500lb bomb on a residential block, the firing of as many as 9,000 heavy artillery shells into one of the most densely populated places on earth and the nightly terrorising with sonic booms.

"I want nobody to sleep at night in Gaza," declared the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, as children went out of their minds. In their defence, the Palestinians fired a cluster of Qassam missiles and killed eight Israelis: enough to ensure Israel's victimhood on the BBC; even Jeremy Bowen struck a shameful "balance", referring to "two narratives". The historical equivalent is not far from that of the Nazi bombardment and starvation of the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto. Try to imagine that described as "two narratives".

Watching this unfold in Washington - I am staying in a hotel taken over by evangelical "Christians for Israel" apparently seeking rapture - I have heard only the crudest colonial refrain and no truth. Hezbollah, drone America's journalistic caricatures, is "armed and funded by Syria and Iran", and so they beckon an attack on those countries, while remaining silent about America's $3bn-a-year gift of planes and small arms and bombs to a state whose international lawlessness is a registered world record. There is never mention that, just as the rise of Hamas was a response to the atrocities and humiliations the Palestinians have suffered for half a century, so Hezbollah was formed only as a defence against Ariel Sharon's murderous invasion of Lebanon in 1982 which left 22,000 people dead. There is never mention that Israel intervenes at will, illegally and brutally, in the remaining 22 per cent of historic Palestine, having demolished 11,000 homes and walled off people from their farmlands, and families, and hospitals, and schools. There is never mention that the threat to Israel's existence is a canard, and the true enemy of its people is not the Arabs, but Zionism and an imperial America that guarantees the Jewish state as the antithesis of humane Judaism.

Government silence

The epic injustice done to the Palestinians is the heart of the matter. While European governments (with the honourable exception of the Swiss) have remained craven, it is only Hezbollah that has come to the Palestinians' aid. How truly shaming. There is no media "narrative" of the Palestinians' heroic stand during two uprisings, and with slingshots and stones most of the time. Israel's murders of Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndall have left them utterly alone. Neither is the silence of governments all that is shocking. On a major BBC programme, Maureen Lipman, a Jew and promoter of selective good causes, is allowed to say, without serious challenge, that "human life is not cheap to the Israelis, and human life on the other side is quite cheap actually . . ."

Let Lipman see the children of Gaza laid out after an Israeli bombing run, their parents petrified with grief. Let her watch as a young Palestinian woman - and there have been many of them - screams in pain as she gives birth in the back seat of a car at night at an Israeli roadblock, having been wilfully refused right of passage to a hospital. Then let Lipman watch the child's father carry his newborn across freezing fields until it turns blue and dies.

I think Orwell got it right in this passage from Nineteen Eighty-Four, a tale of the ultimate empire:

"And in the general hardening of outlook that set in . . . practices which had been long abandoned - imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions . . . and the deportation of whole populations - not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive."

John Pilger's new book, "Freedom Next Time", is published by Bantam Press

[Localizer]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

negotiations obviously arent the cure, as they continue to bomb, capture and undermine isrealis and innoncent worldwide .

negotions are a cure, but condo rice and the bush administration fail to give them better terms. They ask for Hezbollah to disarm but not Israel. How do you think Hezbollah is gonna feel about those terms?

[Localizer]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Maladay, If you are in Lebanon, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all the pain and suffering you are going through. Its natural that you should feel angry at those that are causing you such pain. You should demand some answers from the International community.

But you wont. Why, because those to blame are Hizbollah, your government, Syria and Iran.

When Syrian backed, and Iranian armed, Hizbollah hide in your homes, use those homes for storage of weapons, use those who live in those homes as human shields, I can understand why you attack Israel on these pages.

After all had your own government, and the internaitonal community, ensured the implementation of Res 1559, you would not be the position you are in, and therefore you would not be attacking Israel on these pages.

Had Hozbollah not rained rockets into northern Israel as a pretext to murder and abduct members of the IDF on Israeli soil, you would not be in the position you are in now and I would not have to read your attack on Israel on these pages.

So continue to attack Israel here Maladay, for whilst you and your brethren continue to attack Israel nothing is being done about cleaning Lebanon of outside control which plummets your country back a generation or two.

So, like I said above, I'm sorry that things are rough for you, but you need to focus your anger at those who have ensured that your country is destroyed and your citizens used as human shields for a militia that your government has agreed to disarm.

Excuse me, was it not sparked first by IDF running around Gaza strip, and then followed by the kidnappings of IDF soldiers? I think both sides are at fault and Israel is just as much to blame for this non-sense as Hezbollah is.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Localizer

Events in Gaza, the south, and events on the lebanon border, the north, are not the same.

Whilst i NEVER approve of my governments position re:Gaza, having northern cities bombarder with rockets, crossing the blue line and ambushing IDF soldiers WITHIN Israel is what sparked the northern campaign.

Combine that with the complete failure of the international community and lebanon in enforcing Res 1559 led to the current situation on the northern Israeli border.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

negotions are a cure, but condo rice and the bush administration fail to give them better terms. They ask for Hezbollah to disarm but not Israel. How do you think Hezbollah is gonna feel about those terms?

No UN resolution 1559, which brought about Israels exit from Southern Lebanon in 2000, calls for Hizbollah to be disarmed to ensure that Northern Israeli communities no longer live in fear of continual rocket attacks from Hizbollah.

[threehills]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

They ask for Hezbollah to disarm but not Israel. How do you think Hezbollah is gonna feel about those terms?

Hezbollah is a militia, Israel is a country. You can't make that comparison. No one is asking Lebonnon's army to disarm.

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

you are flat out wrong. im sorry to tell you. no negotiations will work. we have given them YEARS. and everytime they argee to something, they default on it. remember iran telling europe they didnt have nuclear goals for 12 years, now look. isreal pulls out thier settlements, and hamas attacks more. isreal wasnt even bothered with lebanon, and hezzbollah jumped in. this is now a war to the end of one side.

im sorry, but you're wrong. there are no facts, thoeries, or plans that will lead to peace. only false hopes.

[Localizer]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Hezbollah is a militia, Israel is a country. You can't make that comparison. No one is asking Lebonnon's army to disarm.

apparently the US already has made that comparison....

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

What do you mean by WE the sightless????