God

[BureOne]

Re: God

Would you call cancer in itself a miracle? If not, then what ever process caused the cancer another process exits to stop it. For example, many cancers are caused by DNA mutations. Further mutations can occur to silence the genes leading to cancer. I would never consider the remissions of cancer a miracle.

wha? I dont think cancer is a miracle.

So if there are dna mutations that cause the ill virus/disease cancer.. and science and medicine can see it; detect it.. why can't they see the other mutations that stops it like you say? I would think they can see the dna mutation that stops it as they can see the one that starts it...

imo, people create excuses not to consider or call it a "miracle".. in any case; I think we all would agree whatever stopped the cancer, good for the one who had it

[rainman]

Re: God

I've never seen someone use math, physics, and chemistry to explain religion until now. but even after pulling all three into the argument, it still ended with "you can't see it, you just need to believe in it"

don't forget the Dr. Dre quote at the end. I'm with pickles on this one, how can you use math, physics and rap lyrics to explain the difference of believing vs. not?

[BureOne]

Re: God

I understand you, but what you're trying to get to is that since science can't explain why someone with cancer was suddenly cured that that must be god's hand. That's where you're allowing your faith and belief to "jump to a conclusion". You've begun with a belief in a god and a god that performs miracles and in the absence of any other explanation that becomes your default one.

I can't give a better explanation of why the person was cured of cancer, science is no help here, but in the absence of scientific knowledge is there nothing else other than god?

I would call it a miracle from God or a "higher being" if people dont like the word/name God involved, what would others call it is what Im curious..

[threehills]

Re: God

What do non-beleivers think about Miracles? Call it something else, what do you think of someone having cancer and then the cancer dissapearing?

Would you call cancer in itself a miracle? If not, then what ever process caused the cancer another process exits to stop it. For example, many cancers are caused by DNA mutations. Further mutations can occur to silence the genes leading to cancer. I would never consider the remissions of cancer a miracle.

[rubyraks]

Re: God

I understand you, but what you're trying to get to is that since science can't explain why someone with cancer was suddenly cured that that must be god's hand. That's where you're allowing your faith and belief to "jump to a conclusion". You've begun with a belief in a god and a god that performs miracles and in the absence of any other explanation that becomes your default one.

I can't give a better explanation of why the person was cured of cancer, science is no help here, but in the absence of scientific knowledge is there nothing else other than god?

[BureOne]

Re: God

well that's the thing... Im not saying it's a coincidence...hence why its less understandable. So if it's unexplanable.. what is it?

People associate miracles with the belief in God.. but if they dont beleive in such a "higher being" what would you say of such an example of someone being cured of cancer without medicine being a factor?

I mean there have been stories of this right?... I dont have articles or uh "proof", but I think we've all heard of such stories.

Im not sure Im making any sense here..lol

[rubyraks]

Re: God

but your example of cancer is less understandable as a coincidence? Since doctors actually tend to have many holes in their understanding of the science of cancer, how could you be so sure that your example is a better example of god and not just coincidence again?

[BureOne]

Re: God

Well that example is more "understandable" and can easily be a coincidence of "good weather". I wouldnt call something like that a "miracle".. people would start calling a miracle saving $1.00 on frosted flakes on a found coupon!

[rubyraks]

Re: God

coincidence or perhaps timing maybe...the use of the term miracle pretty much presupposes a god and makes a cause and effect connection that simply can't be proved. One may view that as a faithful conclusion.

So if there are fires in the forest raging out of control and then it rains to dampen the fires, does that automatically mean that god had a hand in it or is it just a possible coincidence of the weather patterns?

Just because something can't be explained scientifically, doesn't automatically require the conclusion that god did it. Nature works in mysterious ways sometimes too

[BureOne]

Re: God

I think some of the points people need to say why you should beleive, even if you dont see signs or "proof" is basically faith. Without faith, obviously you wont beleive.

What do non-beleivers think about Miracles? Call it something else, what do you think of someone having cancer and then the cancer dissapearing? What is that if not a miracle? How can one explain it scientifically?.. just luck?

Or are all "miracle stories" simply bogus?

[rainman]

Re: God

if you want to find it and you're looking for it, guess what? you will find it






Doesn't mean it's really there though...

Damn it!! guess i don't believe in god after all. now what to do??

[rubyraks]

Re: God

Well its more of explaining trignometry to someone learning subtraction...there isnt anything to discuss...the signs and proofs are there,,, in physics and chemistry,
its not about just beleiving its more of a connection that you feel once you start it, things get clearer and makes more sense signs become more obvious,,,in the beggining or end its a choice that everyone has to make and is responsible for it...so just chill to the next episode...

if you want to find it and you're looking for it, guess what? you will find it






Doesn't mean it's really there though...

[picklemonkey]

Re: God



I've never seen someone use math, physics, and chemistry to explain religion until now. but even after pulling all three into the argument, it still ended with "you can't see it, you just need to believe in it"

[trick12]

Re: God

I respect your right to your opinions, but it seems that what you say is 100% emotive and has zero basis as even an attempted logical argument-based discussion. As such, there isn't really anything to...discuss

Well its more of explaining trignometry to someone learning subtraction...there isnt anything to discuss...the signs and proofs are there,,, in physics and chemistry,
its not about just beleiving its more of a connection that you feel once you start it, things get clearer and makes more sense signs become more obvious,,,in the beggining or end its a choice that everyone has to make and is responsible for it...so just chill to the next episode...

[DjNutcase]

Re: God

Look guys it's simple.

No God = No after-life = NON-EXISTENCE when we die (or are killed)

Why does a lack of a God mean no after-life? Not sure how those two different concepts are logically connected. Many many philosophies entail after-life without a God so I'm not sure why this is made out to be black / white...