support the troops

[threehills]

Re: support the troops

....simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason.

Thats bumpersticker worthy material right there!

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

well, of course they're trying to kill. If the Chinese Government landed a legion of troops and set up a bases in the heart of Tampa, don't you think the backwater rednecks would create a counter-insurgency against those forces? It's not about sympathy, but about principle. The geneva convention would also not apply to the backyard warriors of tampa.

The taliban surely needs to be eliminated to help afghanistan make progress, but is that what we're there for ultimately? To create a democratic government? What was once a satelite russian state now becomes a satelite american state. Interesting.


I think i may be able to boil down the posts to a terse line: it's disheartening to see any person killed, whether it be american, afghan, british, military or civilian, simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason. .

agree 100%

although Afghanistan was never really a satellite Russian state

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

To begin with I really don't watch TV at all...i wouldn't own one if it weren't for the fact that my dad stops by once in a while and wants to watch the news.
Secondly not to disrespect anyone in particular,but I am just sharing my opinion, going to war is really really REALLY stupid. the only viable reason i would ever go to war would be self defense of me and my family or friends...as for patriotism etc...fuck that shit.
On the other hand I can understand if a under privileged person goes to war because he or she has no choice or a person who loves killing/fighting goes...but anyone with a choice should have their head examined for going to war.
I don't see anything noble or admirable about being paid peanuts to risk your life for someones election campaign or someones profits...whatever the reason.
Its not about having or not having the balls...I have been in a fair amount of tough situations in my life to know what I would and what I wouldn't be able to handle so I don't see the point of fighting.
Maybe you can explain to me why you joined?

p.s. I am not trying to insult you or anything.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

well, of course they're trying to kill. If the Chinese Government landed a legion of troops and set up a bases in the heart of Tampa, don't you think the backwater rednecks would create a counter-insurgency against those forces? It's not about sympathy, but about principle. The geneva convention would also not apply to the backyard warriors of tampa.

The taliban surely needs to be eliminated to help afghanistan make progress, but is that what we're there for ultimately? To create a democratic government? What was once a satelite russian state now becomes a satelite american state. Interesting.


I think i may be able to boil down the posts to a terse line: it's disheartening to see any person killed, whether it be american, afghan, british, military or civilian, simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason. Wars are almost always waged because governments want the wars, not because the people will it to be so.

[shosh]

Re: support the troops

To Shpira: I am not basing this on the "TV" that you're watching. I am basing this on what i have seen myself. I don't agree with the Iraq War necessarily, I was more stating on war in general. But I have had friends killed in both wars. it sux. if you think you can make snese with these people then keep living in your dream world. The coalition have been attempting to train the iraqis to take care of themselves, but half the time the people don't care or are too lazy. So once again unless you have been there your self, you wouldn't know.

To Mariner: I understand what the Geneva convention is for.. But I have no sympathy for these radicals who not only try to kill us, but there own people as well. Its like its 500 years ago out here in afghanistan, because these radicals have ran this place for so long. The taliban must be irradicated if this country ie to progress. The US and Nato have spent shitloads of money demining this place and building schools and training people. So I myself have seriously tuned out the wining about the US.

And back on topic with the meaning of this thread. yeah the loss is disheartening. I get waken up in the middle of the night to see a casket with a flag draped over it, being driven through the streets on a Hummer. ( not always American either) Not something I really enjoy. trust me. The ones that have been lost will never be forgotten. I pray for their families. and with the comment about suicide, I've seen that too. A lot of it has to do with how these soldier's command treats them out here. Its's absurd really. especially because they are out here for 15 months. I would defintiely go insane.

props to you my man. lets get this thread back on track... supporting and respecting our country's soldiers. just watched flag of our fathers and made me realize again the sacrifice some men make. makes me feel like the biggest pussy

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

To Shpira: I am not basing this on the "TV" that you're watching. I am basing this on what i have seen myself. I don't agree with the Iraq War necessarily, I was more stating on war in general. But I have had friends killed in both wars. it sux. if you think you can make snese with these people then keep living in your dream world. The coalition have been attempting to train the iraqis to take care of themselves, but half the time the people don't care or are too lazy. So once again unless you have been there your self, you wouldn't know.

To Mariner: I understand what the Geneva convention is for.. But I have no sympathy for these radicals who not only try to kill us, but there own people as well. Its like its 500 years ago out here in afghanistan, because these radicals have ran this place for so long. The taliban must be irradicated if this country ie to progress. The US and Nato have spent shitloads of money demining this place and building schools and training people. So I myself have seriously tuned out the wining about the US.

And back on topic with the meaning of this thread. yeah the loss is disheartening. I get waken up in the middle of the night to see a casket with a flag draped over it, being driven through the streets on a Hummer. ( not always American either) Not something I really enjoy. trust me. The ones that have been lost will never be forgotten. I pray for their families. and with the comment about suicide, I've seen that too. A lot of it has to do with how these soldier's command treats them out here. Its's absurd really. especially because they are out here for 15 months. I would defintiely go insane.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

let's also not forget the thousands of soldiers who have committed suicide upon returning from iraq. the numbers are absolutely staggering to think about...

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

I understand what you're saying huggies, totally. The problem is, both adversaries we are involved with refuse to recognize the Geneva convention. That makesit impossible to succeed following the convention to the t. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan,and I want to be treated in the ways set forth by the convention, but I know that if i was to get captured, theres no way that would happen. These extremist don't give a shit. It sux, but what are you going to do. Wars aren't won with sympathy unfortunately.

well the extremists aren't nationalities. nor could you expect the ku klux klan to abide by the geneva convention. it's for conventional warfare waged by nations, not small factions.

[DIDI]

Re: support the troops

I thought this thread was about a personal loss. If it was another thread I would agree totally with Chunky.

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

too much TV = warped vision of reality

p.s. chunky is the only one making sense imo

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

So if one side doesnt follow the Geneva convention, its OK for the other side not to.

My father was in the armed forces foe 35 years. On active duty in Northern Ireland, Fought in the Falkland conflict and the Gulf in 1993 on active duty. After going to the Iraq this time he came back and quit in disgust. My brother in law is still out there and he doesnt want to be there either. If he could get out early he would. Most of the troops out there don't feel they should be there.

The Iraqi dept is over £14,0000 for every man, woman and child. And the British and Americans are trading it on the stock exchange. If they really want to help Iraq, they could always drop the dept. And tell all them scum bag company's trading on misery. That that's what you get when you trade with dictators. They could also divide up all the oil into shares between all the Iraqi people to help them along

[thesightless]

Re: support the troops

I understand what you're saying huggies, totally. The problem is, both adversaries we are involved with refuse to recognize the Geneva convention. That makesit impossible to succeed following the convention to the t. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan,and I want to be treated in the ways set forth by the convention, but I know that if i was to get captured, theres no way that would happen. These extremist don't give a shit. It sux, but what are you going to do. Wars aren't won with sympathy unfortunately.

amen brother. wars are won by killing the other side enough to either force surrender or kill them off. imagine if we had to operate like we do now in the world wars.

"excuse me hitler, its acutally illegal to kill off innocent people, so we will file a petition with the UN in a few months asking for a condemnation of your actions. please halt all acitivies in europe until we can resolve the issues, and give the jews the rights dictated in all major conventions."

if we really want to win the war, drop bigger bombs more often, until then, we will be stuck and when we leave crazy muslims will kill more people in the name of god while hiding in schools, hospitals, and mosques, saying that these places are protected while they are in them and we cannot go after them until then.

lets not create the politcal thread, can we all accept that we should hope for the best of everyone who is innocent and pray that we either kill or capture those with a goal of killing innocent people and children.

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

I understand what you're saying huggies, totally. The problem is, both adversaries we are involved with refuse to recognize the Geneva convention. That makesit impossible to succeed following the convention to the t. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan,and I want to be treated in the ways set forth by the convention, but I know that if i was to get captured, theres no way that would happen. These extremist don't give a shit. It sux, but what are you going to do. Wars aren't won with sympathy unfortunately.

[Huggie Smiles]

Re: support the troops

(Directed at Huggies comment)
whats your point?

I come from a military family (not me) and I wouldn't want my family members locked up without trial by a foreign government without being charged, without hope of due process. Whether they were called enemy combatants or prisoners of war. I dont think NATO soldiers should be subjected to such treatment. Therefore i don't think western governments should be allowed to treat people that they have captured in that way.

War is never going to be pleasant. Hopefully most everyone can agree on that.

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

(Directed at Huggies comment)
whats your point?