support the troops

[chuckc]

miroslav its no use, these people are brainwashed. what a joke.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

that may be true, but the united states government has done nothing in light of how i formed my view in the above post. it may influence the environment which i form these views, but my thoughts are my own: they are not informed to me by any government, governing body, media personality, or otherwise.

if what you say is true of all decisions, that the government has a hand in all of it, then where does the slippery slope of credit and blame end?

[Miroslav]

Re: support the troops

miroslav,

you commit the same fallacy as you cite against Chucky: giving credit to a nation where the decision was based on the choices made by individuals. It would be no different than claiming praise for Croatia (or Serbia) for the gains made possible by Tesla, or saying America deserves credit for the gold medals won by Jesse owens. Equal true, it would be a disservice to George Washinton to claim that "the United States defeated the British in the Revolutionary War", which I think is on point to what you have commented on. It is to the credit of the individual, not the nationality of that person. Rarely, if ever, does a nation act as a purely unified whole. But then, it has been years since people have been able to discern the trees from the forest...

Yes, what the individual achieves is an important facet. But what the individual is able to achieve is significantly influenced by the environment of the nation in which he/she resides, as evidenced by economic incentive systems, financial institutions, legal institutions, civic/cultural institutions, educational policies, form of government, degree of government intervention, cultural norms, values, etc...the list is long. Look at the US vs. Myanmar and tell me what differences you see...

You as an individual would not even have been able to type what you just did without potential criminal liability back in my home country prior to 1989.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

miroslav,

you commit the same fallacy as you cite against Chucky: giving credit to a nation where the decision was based on the choices made by individuals. It would be no different than claiming praise for Croatia (or Serbia) for the gains made possible by Tesla, or saying America deserves credit for the gold medals won by Jesse owens. Equal true, it would be a disservice to George Washinton to claim that "the United States defeated the British in the Revolutionary War", which I think is on point to what you have commented on. It is to the credit of the individual, not the nationality of that person. Rarely, if ever, does a nation act as a purely unified whole. But then, it has been years since people have been able to discern the trees from the forest...

[Miroslav]

Re: support the troops

What has the US done for Europe? The US didn't join the the Second World War until Pearl Harbour was attacked (Something the US government had prior knowledge of and let happen) Also the UK only stopped paying back the US loan for the war in 2006. 50 years at 2% APR. They kept the cold war running long after the Soviet Union wanted to disarm. They have constantly tired to exploit world trade. So what exactly have they done? I cant think of anything they have done that has been for the good of man without having another agenda. I suppose they did give McDonald's, followed by Cruse Missiles.

um...ok I know that the US is far from perfect, but I have to call this out for the ignorant statement that it is. I'm getting damn sick of this ignorant trend to just condemn the entire country out of hand. And I say that as a European who came to this country in his youth.

1. The US actually played a significant role in helping defeat the Axis powers and thus bring peace to Europe. Oh, and the US also played a similar role in World War I.

2. Providing funding for reconstruction was not "nothing". It tangibly helped war-torn Europe rebuild so that it could more rapidly return to economic growth.

3. For all of its mistakes, the US market-based economic system has been one of the past century's most important generators of economic growth, innovation, and productivity and is responsible for many of the products and services - much of the lifestyle - that you benefit from and take for granted on a daily basis. For all its mistakes, at least the US wasn't sitting around oppressing and obstructing its own people through stupid Communist regimes, like numerous other nations have (and still do). I should know, because I had to flee from one of those kinds of countries.

Oh and by the way...look around and you'll see that other nations have woken up and are moving closer to the kind of a free market-based model that the US in many ways pioneered (China? India? Eastern Europe??). There's a good reason for this: it just works better than the other alternatives tried, despite its drawbacks. It's a major facet of this thing called "globalization", and it's not going away.

And now I'll leave you all with one final question: How has your country fared in the legacy that it has "given to the world"? Perhaps if you stop and seriously think about that for a minute, you will come to realize that no country is "perfect" or entirely "bad". All countries have things in their past that are shameful. The world is actually shades of grey, not black and white.

Some perspective and education might greatly enhance the credibility of some peoples' opinions around here.

[djc200]

Re: support the troops

wow... it's getting political here! just listen to music I say. Focus on being a better person. don't get wrapped up in fear campaigns and the 11 o'clock news. you're wasting away in front of the tube.

just kidding... being conscious is all and good, but too much american media can eat away at your soul.

look on the bright side, it's boat party season again! woohoo!!

What has the US done for Europe? The US didn't join the the Second World War until Pearl Harbour was attacked (Something the US government had prior knowledge of and let happen) Also the UK only stopped paying back the US loan for the war in 2006. 50 years at 2% APR. They kept the cold war running long after the Soviet Union wanted to disarm. So what exactly have they done? I cant think of anything they have done that has been for the good of man without having another agenda. I suppose they did give McDonald's, followed by Cruse Missiles.

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

Some people also seem to think that any county including the US ever does anything in order to help others...the US has done such great things for Europe...helped the Europeans in all the wars and somehow ended up on top...I wonder how you would explain that, is it because the US received nothing in return god came down and remodeled the world to make the US the most powerful nation or is it because all that help given to European nations was given under certain conditions that drastically improved the US's position in the world. So as I said, pick up a book.

What has the US done for Europe? The US didn't join the the Second World War until Pearl Harbour was attacked (Something the US government had prior knowledge of and let happen) Also the UK only stopped paying back the US loan for the war in 2006. 50 years at 2% APR. They kept the cold war running long after the Soviet Union wanted to disarm. They have constantly tired to exploit world trade. So what exactly have they done? I cant think of anything they have done that has been for the good of man without having another agenda. I suppose they did give McDonald's, followed by Cruse Missiles.

[Miroslav]

Re: support the troops

well, in the interest of totally hijacking this thread...

...I wonder how you would explain that, is it because the US received nothing in return god came down and remodeled the world to make the US the most powerful nation or is it because all that help given to European nations was given under certain conditions that drastically improved the US's position in the world.

A number of factors, chiefly among which was the US's long-standing decision to embrace a fundamentally capitalist rather than a socialist (or, God forbid, a communist) system. The system has its drawbacks, but it is a key reason that the US was been "on top" in terms of economic power for most of the 20th century, while most of France was continuously on strike (still is) and other nations like Russia and China were busy terrorizing their own people. The Chinese, among others, are now finally figuring all this out.

p.s. the US should align their oil prices with the prices in the rest of the world and use the taxes for developing alternative fuel rather than have ppl nag about oil prices 24/7...this however will never happen as long as you have the same people who are in power making a killing profit out of working for oil corporations and those who are not working getting huge campaign funding from them.

The US doesn't set its own oil prices; they are fundamentally set by global market forces. Alternative energy will be developed now that it is finally economically feasible for business entrepreneurs to take on that investment risk, but this is a process that will take decades to develop and implement.

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

Apparently some people still thing World War 1 started due to the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Nothing to do with the fact that ships where switching from Coal to Oil something the Germans had little of. The British sent more troops to defend the oil supplies in the middle east than any country in Europe.

Thats one of the reasons yes but there are some more...but this thread is not really about that...

Some people also seem to think that any county including the US ever does anything in order to help others...the US has done such great things for Europe...helped the Europeans in all the wars and somehow ended up on top...I wonder how you would explain that, is it because the US received nothing in return god came down and remodeled the world to make the US the most powerful nation or is it because all that help given to European nations was given under certain conditions that drastically improved the US's position in the world. So as I said, pick up a book.

In addition to this let me just point out to some who are misinformed here...one of the main reasons why Saddam Hussein was not taken out in the first gulf war was because the US administration at the time rightly recognized the deep ethnic divisions that were present in the country and as a result understood that rebuilding Iraq and preventing civil war would be very difficult. The current administration however appears to believe some fairy tale about American Values being universal or whatever. "Inside every gook there is an American screaming to come out " - ring any bells - change gook for Iraqi and you get the idea, but the outcome is gonna pretty much similar...

As for hambino saying that women are oppressed for wearing burkhas...tell that to hundreds of thousands of Muslim women who choose to wear them in London.
Is the US gonna bring democracy to East London next as well?


p.s. the US should align their oil prices with the prices in the rest of the world and use the taxes for developing alternative fuel rather than have ppl nag about oil prices 24/7...this however will never happen as long as you have the same people who are in power making a killing profit out of working for oil corporations and those who are not working getting huge campaign funding from them.

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

Ahh, so it was about the oil

Apparently some people still thing World War 1 started due to the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Nothing to do with the fact that ships where switching from Coal to Oil something the Germans had little of. The British sent more troops to defend the oil supplies in the middle east than any country in Europe.

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

wow.. look at the thread title people.. this is a support the troops thread, not why is the war right or wrong.. if thats the case, move it into the fucking politics section

Whats the big deal with the tittle of the thread. The thread would be 2 pages long if people had stuck to the tittle. If people want to talk, let it play out and see where it go's. Even with the thread title it should be in the politics section any way. Plenty of threads start somewhere and finish somewhere else.

[DIDI]

Re: support the troops

wow. unbeleivable. how clueless some people are. yeah lets go ahead and bring the troops home (which iran would love). shortly after they will take over Iraq and the region will be in chaos...........you think you paying alot for gas now...try 8 to 10 bux a gallon.

Ahh, so it was about the oil

Just for the record I do support the troops.

[dig72]

Re: support the troops

wow.. look at the thread title people.. this is a support the troops thread, not why is the war right or wrong.. if thats the case, move it into the fucking politics section

You're right, I'm outta here.



Peace.

[dig72]

Re: support the troops

[quote=chuckc;604793]

see that is the problem you read one article or see one show on cnn and you believe it to be gospel..

Prove the article/report wrong.

[Steve Graham]

Re: support the troops

wow.. look at the thread title people.. this is a support the troops thread, not why is the war right or wrong.. if thats the case, move it into the fucking politics section