100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

[mixu]

runningman, you're a real comedian ? that's hilarious!

[runningman]

they don't need to get together.. they want everyone to be muslim.. if not they will try to take over once there population gets bigger then the home nation.. If u don't like it they go to war.. Jihad.. war against there religion so they can kill you..

[mixu]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

Can someone tell me when the world's Muslim population got together and decided they wanted to take over the globe?

[runningman]

I am sick of arguing about muslims.. I have heard all this crap about me being racist and robprunzit also civic zen.. I still have not heard of anyones plan to stop the muslims from there goal of becoming a global islamic state.. they spread like wild fire.. Why is it then that everyone in the world has a problem with muslims.. THe seiks hate them the christians hate them the jews hate them, even the chinese hate them.. So why is it that the christians are painted red?? We aren't fighting with the rest of the world.. they are.. and you playboy people come on here and say stupid shit.. If you know muslims treat there woman bad then if you defend them then i can call you a sexist.. Right u call me a racist because of my views on this so you must be that then right??

Yao said
but Islam just won't move an inch into the future thanks to uneducation and extremism combined, among other reasons.

So how do we fix it?? I would rather have the fight overseas in the middle east then sitting like a guppy waiting for the next punch.. If u don't have a plan to back your arguement of saying "The USA is bad for fighting the war on terror" then you have absolutely nothing usefull to say.. Bush has a plan and if he decides to go into Iran damn it Canada better as well or i am leaving.. Bush has a meeting with our Prime Minister Nov. 30.. I bet the whole conversation will be about foreign policy..

[Yao]

I do agree with Mixu, but your last post has given me a bit insight in your thinking Robprunzit.
I take back what I said about being a racist. I obviously jumped the gun at that and apologize for it.

We all know about the maltreatment of women in Muslim countries, and the corrupted version that is passed on to uneducated Muslims by their clergy in some places.
But I don't hate the religion, I don't hate the people. I hate the people that corrupt it and transform a belief that is intrinsically not bad into an intellectual monstrosity.

The same has happened with Christianity and Jews. They've gone past this stage for various reasons, but Islam just won't move an inch into the future thanks to uneducation and extremism combined, among other reasons.

[mixu]

Rob,

We can go back and forth with this... but there's no point ? and maybe some opinions aren't being expressed particularly well. Your last post is far better than the previous one:

Islam's goal is to dominate the world and control it in a governmental Islamic state. That has always been the goal, and it has never gone away. Only the plan changes.

Change Islam for Jews here and you might as well be talking about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion...

My point about Christianity and history was that the Crusades were basically about 'reclaiming' the Holy Lands ? and killing Arabs and Jews. Christianity has been imposed on much of the world, particularly South America, through force and often violent colonial powers...

I'm defending neither Islam or Christianity in this respect, just pointing out the fact that over the past 2,000 years people have used the name of both religions for the wrong reasons. And in that respect it's hard to say one is worse than the other.

[robprunzit]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject:
you guys are fucking racists. you are at a point of no return that talking sense to you is hopeless - it's a waste of time & energy. having a political take and discussing it within limits is one thing, being flatout a disgrace to humanity is another thing. i feel sorry for the people you might influence during your vile lives... Mad Now

----------------------------------------------
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:10 am Post subject:
robprunzit...

I thought you had a few more brain cells than that. Your post isn't even worth replying to ? uneducated, bigoted and, quite frankly, it's pretty 'sad' that you feel you should share these 'views' with us.

-----------------------------
mixu, have you ever heard of the 'hadith', (forgive my spelling), have you ever read the Qu'ran? Give them a spin. You might change you opinion.

These arent just 'views', they are observations. FTC, what is this about limits. Since where do I need to follow a protocal of political correctness on a forum discussing political topics. And yes the issue of Islam internationally is political, though it is first and foremost religious. So it is good I got your blood boiling, but why is it boiling is the question?

I'm not a bigot and I'm not racist. Very, very far from it. But I do have opinions, and I think people should speak the truth. When it comes to bashing some sectors of people, it is acceptable, but others it is not. Well, I'm explaining facts first, and opinions second. If you don't believe it, I could point out some good books written by ex-muslim middle eastern people, one from Iran, and one from Asia ... India, a mostly Hindu country. Both explaining things about Islam that most will not discuss, but it is there in the Qu'ran, and the volumes of 'hadith' journals for all to read, though the hadith may only be found in Arabic.

I've been to Muslim countries. I'm not bigoted, I just share my opinion strongly. Plenty have been strong in their lack of willingness to follow the leader of America, and in voicing their feelings about him. Can I not voice my observations about something I know something about, which happens to be a topic very few will discuss openly.

It is one thing to hate a religion for what it stands for and what it does to the people. It is another thing to hate the people. I dont hate them, actually I have many muslim friends, and I have eaten at their tables, in their homes, in their homeland. They have given me there bed to sleep on while they slept on the floor.

Some of these people I can say I care about very much. And maybe that is why I dispise the religion so very much. Like many people, some muslims have great hearts, and are very intellectual people, and some have simply been borne into a world where hatred and a backward way of life exist. And it warped them.

Most of the world will never dig deep enough to understand why they do what they do, or feel like they feel.

Two incidences I know this to be true, but did not experience them first hand. A man pooring acid on a womans face because she changed her religion and would not have sex with him, or another woman placed in a hole and dirt poored around her so only her shoulders and head are above the ground, then stoned to death because she had sex before marriage. And nothing happens to the man.

Excuse me, you need to do more than read you history books.

-----------------------
Mixu: you commented...
And a point to consider ? much of the world speaks either English or Spanish while many countries are devoutly Catholic... Is it worth banging on about how 'evil' Christianity is as well?
-------------------------

Oh, however you read something into what I said about Christianity, was completely misinterpreted. Christianity is certainly the polar opposite of 'evil'.

And yes, Dave made alot of sense. That was a well thought out post, except one thing. In my opinion it goes back more than the 100 or 20 years. It goes back more than 2000 years.

Mixu, read one of the best history books, the Bible.

[davetlv]

leave race out of it.. i am white.. i hate some white people.. i don't like any race to be honest.. because humans are humans.. and if it goes your way we will all be dead soon.. if the USA stops backing the Isrealies then let's see what dave has to say then.. it is like we have given the jews a free do what u want card.. soon that will stop i hope.. that is what is getting the USA into so much trouble.. fight that war on your own.. if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed.. so get a long or it will always be like this. i'm not the problem.. i am the guy trying to fix the problem.. it has been this way before i wass even born.. so all you out there saying i am the problem that is a bunch shit and you know it.. I wish for peace but i am a realist.. it is never going to happen as long as Israel is next to palestine..

So much to answer to. . . its funny runningman, i actually understand some the things you said, i might not necessarily agree with you, but i do understand. Now however . . . .

First thing first, don't fool yourself matey the alliance between the USA and Israel is symbiotic - we both need each other. Israel clearly needs a powerful friend in this world full of pussy nations whilst the USA need a foothold in the middle east. But it wasn't always like that. Prior to the 6 day war (1967) Israel biggest ally, in terms of military know how etc, was actually France (yeah i know, go figure!). its only when France cancelled military contracts in June 1967 did the USA seize the opportunity to develop the relationship. I'm pleased they did; but i reckon it probably had a lot more to do with the fight against communism then it did about support Israel.

Secondly, as for your comment about a 'do as you want card', if such a thing were really to exist, under Israels present leadership, do you not think we would have been slighty more aggresive; and believe me our military have been holding themselves back!

Thirdly, the war on terror did not start after 9/11, Israel has been fighting it, and warning about it, for nearly 40 years. I refer you back to my previous post on how islamic fundamentalism developed.

Fourthly, your comments about it comes back to the same people in every war . . . you're right; WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam - these are all wars started or caused by Jews. You are a very funny man!

Finally, i'm not saying you are the problem. You certainly can not be held responsible for the rise in fundamentalism; I also don't believe that you personally, or the USA generally, is responsible in way for the continuation of this rise. Its just how things are; every thousand years or so this planet goes a little bit mad; the romans did it, the christians did it and the muslims are doing it.

Its just how it is bro!

[mixu]

if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed..

More wise words

F*cking idiot...

[runningman]

leave race out of it.. i am white.. i hate some white people.. i don't like any race to be honest.. because humans are humans.. and if it goes your way we will all be dead soon.. if the USA stops backing the Isrealies then let's see what dave has to say then.. it is like we have given the jews a free do what u want card.. soon that will stop i hope.. that is what is getting the USA into so much trouble.. fight that war on your own.. if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed.. so get a long or it will always be like this. i'm not the problem.. i am the guy trying to fix the problem.. it has been this way before i wass even born.. so all you out there saying i am the problem that is a bunch shit and you know it.. I wish for peace but i am a realist.. it is never going to happen as long as Israel is next to palestine..

[Yao]

Good posts, FTC, Davetlv and Mixu. Glad to see there's still some sensible people around this board.

As for runningman and Robprunzit: it am not fast in calling people racists, but you sure as hell are going that direction.

As Dave said: the hatred and anger can be understandable, but should never ever prevail over rationale. Because that way you'll never see the other side of a story and become a fundamentalist of your own thoughts.

[mixu]

robprunzit...

I thought you had a few more brain cells than that. Your post isn't even worth replying to ? uneducated, bigoted and, quite frankly, it's pretty 'sad' that you feel you should share these 'views' with us.

Try reading a few history books... or even Dave's post which makes a lot of sense.



And a point to consider ? much of the world speaks either English or Spanish while many countries are devoutly Catholic... Is it worth banging on about how 'evil' Christianity is as well?

[davetlv]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

Seeing as this seems to be such a fun filled topic I thought I would put may two shekels worth in.

ftc - you're right some of the comments being made here could be described as racist. Although I don't entirely subscribe to all those views i can see where people are coming from.

Now, I?m no politician or social theorist, I am left leaning but a realist, my views are my own . . .

As humanity we are at a crossroads - that is to say the three monotheistic religions are at a crossroads. All three are messianic. Two of those religions (Christianity and Islam) firmly believe in converting people of other faiths to, what they see as, the one true faith. I don't have a problem with that. As human being I believe we have the freedom to make decisions as to how we affect our own lives.

What we are seeing today with Islam is similar to what happened at the beginning of the last millennium with Christianity. Simply put crusades. For a crusade to succeed you need two elements, charismatic leadership and masses of uneducated people.

The difference between today?s crusade and that of a thousand years ago is that NO human being on this planet, with all we have achieved in the past 100 years, should be uneducated. Unfortunately the despots who have ruled in most of the Middle East have cared more about lining their own pockets then feeding and educating the vast majority of the Islamic/Arab world.

The reason why it?s easy for semi charismatic leaders today to defame their religion and bastardise their religious texts is because of a handful of megalomaniacs who decided to keep their subjects under such draconian rule that a hot bed of fundamentalism was allowed to flourish. And then, when their subjects started to cry out in pain and anger at their treatment, their leaders needed someone, or something, to focus their anger at.

This current rise in fundamentalism is relatively new, sure there have been pockets of it going back a 100 years or so, but the vast majority of it has raised its ugly head over the past twenty years only.

So on the one hand we have the rise of Islamic fundamentalists, and on the other we have the reaction to it.

When someone is so indoctrinated as to believe that 70 virgins await them after they crash their planes in to buildings or strap bombs onto their bodies and detonate them in nightclubs and buses, its easy to see why WE feel hatred towards them. It?s easy to understand why WE feel we?re now at the stage of them or us.

From personal experience I can tell you, everytime a bomber blows him/herself up on a bus, in a nightclub, in a shopping mall or at a bus stop, I feel angry. I feel hatred. I want retaliation. And for moments i feel like the world would be a better place without them! And then i remember the reality. The reality is that the vast majority of Arab Muslims are victims. Victims of their own currupt leadership that does not give a damn about them. And then another bomber explodes his belt and the cycle continues. . . .

Is there a way out of this situation; I guess if I had the answer to that then I would deserve the Noble peace. Just some personal thoughts!

[ftc]

you guys are fucking racists. you are at a point of no return that talking sense to you is hopeless - it's a waste of time & energy. having a political take and discussing it within limits is one thing, being flatout a disgrace to humanity is another thing. i feel sorry for the people you might influence during your vile lives...

[runningman]

^^ thanks for clearing things up on that topic.. i don't think a lot of other people know this about Islam.. Either that or they thought i was crazy comparing the war in Iraq to religion.. Bush plans ii think to go into every muslim lead country(whether the leader lets him or not) and get rid of these "extremists".. basically to quel a muslim uprising like there usually is every couple hundred years..