Debates about sound quality

[chuckc]

Re: Transitions 350

enough already....seems like every thread turns into an arguing match....can we just discuss the set, isnt this site supposed to be about discussing music??

[sbando]

Re: Transitions 350

If the ones WHO ACTUALLY POST ANY MUSIC HERE (and have Proton & Frisky accounts, ripping shareware, file hosting accounts, a soundcloud account, all of them paid for, month by month) are driven away from here by random trolling, you will have no sets to discuss about, only the ones YOU'LL PAY FOR, even if you aren't aware about it.

Why do you think some people flood the boards with links? It's a huge business, hundreds, even thousands of $ a month.

Also, when a label or dj upload something to Soundcloud, Soundcloud re-encodes their files, so, if the original is not downloadable, every 128kbs preview ripped from there is not much different from my Transitions streams. Part 1 of this set, the one with Nick, is about the same quality.

That said and ego wars aside, what I did was to offer some sort of preview, IN THE CHAT SECTION, before the actual set, as the guidelines say, period. Now you won't get them anymore. It doesn't have anything to do with quality, transcoding, blah blah, I knew that.

Also remember that "ripped" files are stolen from web radios and producers and that they only tolerate what we do (Frisky doesn't), if you start to make a fuss about it we'll lose even more sources.

[feather]

Re: Transitions 350

Wow ...

DD I think you need to calm down ... as long as we're allowed to post lower-bitrate rips, so be it. This has never been done for any of the Transitions shows and clearly sbando did it for OUR benefit knowing [ms] are fans of Digweed and Cattaneo. If I was in his shoes I'd be pretty pissed off too.

And these Proton rips are all over the net anyway; most of the time I wait for the [ms] rips out of respect for the time and effort but there're times when I can't access the links and I end up getting them from elsewhere anyway so what's the big deal?

I mean, right let's say someone does rip this 96kbps stream and it goes into the wild. What's the worst that can happen? 1) Proton rips are already out before [ms] rips and those are higher than 96kbps. 2) Are Digweed and Cattaneo going to sue us or something? No, they'll probably tell us this is not cool and we'll take them down, as we've done in the past with other unofficial sets. 3) Is this gonna harm [ms] reputation? [ms] is hardly a player in the scene so we have no reputation in this context to maintain. 4) We hurt Digweed and Cattaneo's feelings? Doubt it. 5) We impinge on your righteousness which is what seems to be happening.

We all get that you love DJs like Cattaneo and respect them and their requests for 'official quality releases' of their sets, but you're now coming across as some sort of crusader; and the reality is, you simply can't expect the internet or the rest of the world to share the exact same point of view to your exact standards, it doesn't work like that.

(And the below is not directed at DD in case I get drawn into this bullshit)

Man GYY is fucking draining these days. Feels like every week there's some crap going on. And I came back to this thread thinking there's 3 pages of discussion about the fucking music, because this is Digweed and Cattaneo! But no, 3 pages of egoistical bickering about 96kbps rips? WTF.

I might take a break from GYY, in the mean time hopefully the rest of you grow up.

[sbando]

Re: Transitions 350

One thing, it was never posted by me as a set in P&R, then Simon and Hannu posted the proper files and Simon decided to keep the previews, where is the problem -jesus h christ.

As for growing up, it's a very tough time for me, as my FB friends here maybe know, and still it took me hours to put all that together. The software I use can no longer rip in fast mode from Proton, a further proof that the ice here is very thin. I do agree on the ego trippin though.

[feather]

Re: Transitions 350

Sorry I wasn't meaning you specifically, I mean GYY in general and all the crap happening every 5th thread. Anyway I'm outta here, I'm closing my [ms] tab! Peace.

[DIDI]

Re: Transitions 350

To be fair Didi - the Proton rips are out and widely available on a Friday : so the chances of someone ripping the Soundcloud rather than finding a link via google is very remote. So it is a bit of a moot point.

I shouldn't admit this here but I very rarely read anything about transitions. I hate the ads . I only have some vague memories of the way it worked. I hadn't thought it through! But when I read through all this latest stuff it stood out like the proverbial The problem is that the people who know the LEAST are likely to do it and we just get more crap out there. If you go to the link that sbando put up for me you will see a perfect example of someone doing exactly what I am worried about. Also a great example from sbando telling them why they shouldn't do it , which is good!! But the fact of the matter is that those crap things are out there polluting to a stage where people don't know/expect better. I am an idealist, I'm always going to want better.

Reasonator, I want that quality for all of us who said 320 is good enough anyway

chuckc, I thought this ended up being a discussion for once, it got better instead of worth, We both got our points out there and I know I ended up with a little more knowledge. We were discussing music, just not just specific music. The problem here lately is that everyone is expecting the worst and speak/act accordingly. I think Sbando and I proved to some extent last night that it doesn't have to be like that. A good thing was we didn't have trolls come in and try to beat the situation up , which seems to happen a lot more lately. We were two people with genuine issues who voiced them and got over it.


Sbando, I don't think anyone could drive you guys away, because you guys love what you do . I mean that in a really good way. Paying isn't an issue for me, I've always considered that the free stuff we get is a privilege , old school thinking again. I am be more than happy to pay for better!! In fact I have always considered my donations as payment. We need all sorts of people here, while MS is primarily a music site , it was always a hell of a lot more than that. There are many different ways of contributing. I don't download much anymore because of these quality issues . In fact I become positively euphoric when I find something in real 320

Why do you think some people flood the boards with links? It's a huge business, hundreds, even thousands of $ a month.

This to me is incredibly worrying, people used to put up music because they loved it. This site was about sharing that love. As you say it now big business and since when did big business ever care about quality.??

Btw that little bit of knowledge I gained makes me want to ask more, I have tried to rip stuff and what I was doing was ripping to aiff, then converting back to the original, figuring that the aiff would get anything that was there, but from what you said to the tranceaddict guy that extra step would lower the quality further anyway. True?? You will be pleased to note I was never happy with the quality I achieved Although I did post the JJJ ones before JJJ turned to crap I also have paid accounts and ripping shareware, but it still isn't good enough for me And believe me I really try to get stuff in the clubs recorded.


feather, I am definitely a crusader and proud of it And will continue to be.

To all , there is nothing wrong with good robust discussion.

[sbando]

Re: Transitions 350

To be honest, I needed our flame like I need a new hole in my ass, yesterday morning (my morning) I found myself typing away in a foreign language while people were screaming at me (in the real world). I don't know why I had to "defend" myself and what it has to do with "ripping at high quality" at all.

True, of course loseless stays loseless no matter how many times you trancode it, it's like zipping and unzipping a file. If it's lossy (mp3, apple, ogg, etc), each time you do, you deteriorate the original more and more, mp3 relies on psy tricks, to reduce the size of a file, it makes you perceive things that are not really there anymore. At 128k, the joint stereo image can be very far from true stereo, 192 constant bitrate treats silence and complex parts the same, so the complex samples can come out a bit butchered.

The problem of people ripping previews is very real, but we're talking previews of commercial releases, nothing to do with this silly quarrel.